Karaoke Forums

It's piped directly from the main amp, which is a Megastar VKA280.  It's the amp on the bottom of this picture.



The webcam had a little to do with the success of our community, but it was a gimmick that intially brought folks to the site.  It was the forums, chat and community that made them stay and come back.

Forums, photo gallerys, online drink specials, chat rooms are all easy, near zero cost things to add to a website.  Most forums (like this one, phpbb) have some type of karma or point system for community participation.  These are all just gimmicks though.  The key is creating focusing on creating the community for your venue and not just some lame tacky static website with animated gif's.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Bribing hurts the karaoke host industry because when some spoiled and more well-off singers come into my gig, they're disappointed they have to wait just like everyone else. Sometimes that disappointment can lead to public outbursts, and then comes the humilation factor I so despise.

Toger, do you tip the management or cashier people in line at the bank to be next, or wait like a good boy? What about at the car wash? Amusement park?


A line of people waiting is no different if they're sitting down waiting their fair turn than if they were standing up in a cattle pen waiting patiently or not so patiently.

The only thing the customers have to go by "is this host a low life that accepts bribes or not"??

I accept tips all the time. I like Lonnie's idea of the "401K Fund"... but more than that, ya tip when you're happily treated. What kind of compensation do you give out to the others that are disappointed with your show and opt out with their wallet and patrionage? Chances are, they won't voice their displeasure with the management, they'll just leave and never return, telling their friends "if you want to be bumped up, you have to pay at that joint!"

NOT the reputation that most professionals want.

I'm all for all the gadgets and rotation software if it works for you. I personally don't need it. My player is my rotation.

Suzie hit the nail on the head. "If it's not broke, don't fix it." In my case, I converted to computer format to stop the problem with disc degredation (skipping, garbled graphics due to scratches, etc.) So I fixed it to a point!

What would need to be done be able to video tape my karaoke show on a digital camera , go home upload to a website like KARAOKE SCENE and have my customers be able to view and hear themselves on line ?  I would think that this video would only be available for 48 hours or so and then get deleted.

I think many singers and non singers would like this..What do you think?

hey matt??? how many people in our market don't accept bribes??? you? me? who else??? we are the acception to the rule, not the rule... if customers accept it as norm then who are you to say it is wrong... not our personal preference maybe but definitely not the norm or rule of thumb... just as tipping/bribes works for some hosts and doesn't work for others... just because you disagree with how he runs his show doesn't invalidate his success or give you the right to talk down to him because he doesn't subscribe to your way of thinking... I would venture to guess that 99% of customers could not differentiate between a bribe or a tip for a host... god forbid that someone else come in with a new, different, successful way of doing things that isn't how YOU would do it...

Well that's pretty obvious from everyone just in here "thinking" they are the same thing when in actuality they are NOT the same thing.



What is so new about that.  Bribes have been offered since the begining of karaoke, it's the kj's that accept them that makes the customer think it's alright for every club & host.    If it weren't for the bribe issue, I would say he runs a hell of a show.  Watched it on the webcam last night for quite awile.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I have a business account at my bank.  Completely seperate line that is usually empty and lets me get straight to a teller. And it's toQer, not toGer, really big pet peeve of mine when folks get that wrong.

Car wash, yah, sometimes i'll throw the guy a $10 spot and they'll do little extras like steam clean the seats and floormats (usually costs an extra $50 for the service if paid at the cashier)  Those poor guys are making minimum wage.

Some other folks already talked about some amusement parks having "Express Passes" which can be purchased for a little extra.

Again though, this is just how I do things.  The one point i'm trying to get across to everyone is START A COMMUNITY AT THE VENUE.  Here, let me shout it out again START A COMMUNITY AT THE VENUE.  Your community will tell you what they will and will not accept.

Ok towntenor, you're starting to get bumped up in my rotation

As far as how you run the actual show... A lot of KJ's I know are pretty lame in this area.  I've seen KJ's that hog the stage singing themselves, play regular non karaoke music between songs, or worse of all, they'll play the original song after you've sang the karaoke version.  These are all "Time Robbers" in my book.  Again, let me stress the point, people go to karaoke to watch people sing, or sing themselves.  If they wanted to listen to a DJ put up non karaoke songs, there are tons of other clubs people can go to.

Another time robber is the wait time between songs while you're calling out the name of the next singer.  Don't wait!  As soon as the current song is playing, go out into the audience and find the next person in line, let them know they've been warned, are on deck, and if they're not on stage by the time the song starts, they get skipped.  I used to do that myself, but now that I have Jason hired on I just sit in the booth working on sound while he does it. Sometimes having a partner in crime really helps out here.

Singers hate seeing a KJ waste time.   If a KJ is as efficient as possible, they can forgive small indiscretions like a bribe here or there. Again though, your community may not like them, so it's to the discretion of the KJ.

towntenor: I can really teach you a lot about nullsoft streaming video if you like.  It's the only video system I know of that can be integrated into a karaoke show (if run from winamp) The advantage of the whole system is it will automagically cut the video stream up whenever there is a title/singer change, which to me makes it way better than anything else out there.  You can shoot for getting support on the winamp.com forums, or you can just hang out in my chat.  Either way, i'm more than happy to give you a hand there.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

WHY should I have to START anything?!! What we're talking about should be the DOs and DO NOTs that are accepted standards at a Karaoke show.

My show is a standard comprised of basically the way I'd want to be treated. SINCE you feel so strongly, then I guess the guy with the largest wallet and the desire to be parted with it's contents is the way you like to be treated in other aspects of your life... hie who spends the most rules.

I just know that if I saw that crud going on as a customer, I'd be out of there. And you'd no doubt vote with your feet too at my venue.

Guess that's agreeing to disagree... only because I don't want to start WW3 in here! ! As strongly as you feel about TOGER / TOQER , that's as storngly as I feel about bribes with karaoke (or other parts of people's lives).

My eyes aren't that good, you're lucky I got so close as to TOGER... ToQer! !

if ya want to talk about the DOS and DON'TS that are accepted at karaoke shows then start a thread saying as much... the topic of this thread was not whether what you do is right, or better, or should be the standard etc but how to give ideas of how to reinvent a karaoke show IF that is what a show is needing... your show is perfect with no need to improve anything because it is the standard on which all others are judged- dramatic pause-  but that does not mean others can't incorporate things you don't like or agree that should be part of a show,  but you aren't running THEIR shows and what works for THEM doesn't have to be approved by you...  this thread was an attempt for others to throw out how they do things in their shows for others to possibly pick up and do in their own gigs... I already stated that HIS way may not be how WE would do it but his ideas, experience and input on a DIFFERENT way of doing things still may be valuable to other members... he HAS reinvented karaoke outside the normal show (whether we like it or not) in such a way that HIS crowd accepts it and HIS market allows him to do it, and that is exactly what this thread is about...

Because if nobody else is going to do it, you have to.  It's in your best interest to turn your venue into a community.

No the subject says reinventing the karaoke wheel, not standards.  If we stick to standards we're not reinventing.  Although, reinventing the wheel I think will require all of us to change our standards.


Another fine example of a KJ saying "This is my show, i'm doing it MY way."  You have to listen to what your customers want the show to be run.  When you go to burger king, you don't get it the kings way, you get it your way.


We all get treated like this in life.  Other posters have gone over this with very excellent examples with everything from airlines to amusement parks.



Well as stated by one of my customers that was kind enough to come here and give you his honest opinion, they're happy for me.  I run things with such an effieciency the 2 or 3 people dropping a $20 a night is insignifigant to them.  They're happy to see a sucker give his money to such a hard working KJ.  



No, you're perpetuating the same attitude that i've seen from a few others on this forum towards me.  Here, let's break down the negative character assasination you just directed towards me.

You said what I do is crud.
You said folks should be walking out on me.
You said I only respect people with fat wallets.
You said i'm not following standard karaoke practices (which isn't really a bad thing)

Are you the karaoke lawmaster?  Could you provide me a link to what karaoke laws i'm breaking?  Should be on your website somewhere, after all you're such an expert at the subject.

Man there are times I wish this site didn't have a curse filter.

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

#1) - Bribes are bad for business- A "bribe" gives the impression that someone is getting something ( a bump in the rotation) for a monetary sum and that the other singers are not getting the same FAIR chance.  So talking about bribes is a BAD BAD THING.

But if your thinking about RE-INVENTING some karaoke standards to improve your position from a CASH standpoint ---Allowing all the customers to PAY to sing quicker, could be an idea that some singers wouldn't mind ( not talking about $100)
It wasn't too long ago that some karaoke bars (kj) were PAY TO SING .

Pool players pay at least $1 a game  / Juke Boxs  are at least $1 a song / video games are now at least $.50 each game/

So if the standard became that each singer would pay $1 a song  there's your chance as a KJ to make another $40-50 per night.  I can hear the singers now I'LL NEVER PAY TO SING - THATS RIDICULOUS...  

Same people will pay $7 per shot
Same people will pay $7 per pack of cigs
Same people will spend $5 per night playing pool or video games etc etc.

THIS IS JUST ONE IDEA ..... KJ's need to improve their business worth. The quality of Karaoke can only go down if KJ's can't make more than $100 avg per night .

The other idea of getting a more involved community is a great idea but I feel you can't create a community you can only create an atmosphere in which a community can plant it seeds and grow.  good kjs - good music - good  equipment - and fair rules and rotations are all GREAT and required to be successful

well, it's not any show that I'd want to go to, and I'd be personally pissed off if I did.

Karaoke is not a pay per event... and shows like that make the home market appeal that much better.

Its just a concept - Of course you wouldn't WANT to pay for anything..But if it became a norm for GREAT karaoke shows....  People pay for many things they feel are worth it --- Sure you could STAY HOME AND SING FOR NOTHING  and you could also stay home and do the following
PLAY POOL FOR NOTHING
DRINK BEER FOR LESS THAN A $1 A BOTTLE
WATCH FOOTBALL GAMES
SIT AROUND AND BS WITH FRIENDS

Again think open minded about a Karaoke experience THAT CURRENTLY is not found at yours or my shows... The PAY to sing concept would have  to go hand in hand with many of the OTHER ideas being thrown around the thread. BIG STAGE  / BIG LIGHTS  / BIGGER VENUES / VIDEO FEEDS & RECORDING /

The idea if this  topic was to come up with idea on how to re invent karaoke  from being a small entertainment medium to a larger WOW what an experience I had singing type of show.   This really isn't about BRIBES or PAYING to sing .

Here is a question --- How much would you pay to be able to sing your signature Karaoke song at MADISON SQUARE GARDEN (or some other famous entertainment forum)  in front of 30,000 people ?

Don't say nothing cause nobody would believe you

I was going to quit on this thread but I just have to jump back in.  Toqer, in all fairness it is obvious you are very enthusisatic with your "mission."  That's great. More people should be in their endevors.  But what I think you are failing to see or acknowledge, is that apparently the majority of us here in this forum look at the "bribe" thing from a whole different perspective.  It's not that we are looking at our shows as "me me me."  We (I) were not raised with the attitude that it is okay to say that one person is any better than another.  And it IS our business.  It dosen't belong to the "community."  True they dictate to a point whether you are successful or not, but I will not forgo my beliefs nor  my integrity to make a dollar.  I also do not allow songs with excessive vulglarity or discriminatory to others.  And yes I make that descision.  It's my butt, and my money on the line.  And besides God, it's the face in the mirror each morning I answer to.  If it works for you and you don't feel bad about taking money in that fasion, so be it.  Just don't come on so strong to "your way" of thinking that WE are not open minded.  Nobody likes someone to sound like they are trying to push something down your throat.  And to me that is the way you come across.  That's the reason I made the statement that "I thought I smelled a salesman."  I deal with them all the time.

We will assume that it works for you.  Great.  I hope for you it continues. Just don't think we are closed minded because we don't agree with something that goes against many of our personal and in some cases, religious beliefs.  

Kelly

exactly... an open mind concept would be one that is one that we might be able to consider. You're asking those of us that like apples to suddenly eat lemons.

No it's you saying lemons are rotten and won't even try it or look down on those who do.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

no, I'm saying that why should I change when APPLES suit me just fine, and not only just me, but the majority of those of us that eat fruit.

You've got one vendor out there screaming adapt and open your mind, when what's in place now is just fine and accepted. The last thing I want or need is someone coming IN with a Lemon, and only accepting that as a standard and I'm the one that's wrong because I like apples!

((ideology concepts make my head hurt! !))

once again you simply grab onto one point and hang on for dear life  I don't believe I saw him EVER say you HAVE to do it this way... I also don't recall toqer calling the people against bribes/tips names such as salesman, worthless, sleazy and what he does as crud... I don't recall seeing him jump all over you and insult you because you don't accept tips/bribes... apparently you cannot understand what this thread was for so I am gonna tigrrizeit so maybe ya can... DJ gimme a backbeat...

This is just an example so try to restrain yourself from having an aneurism
  Member A says "the following things work in MY club, in MY market, and with MY crowd" and they list 10 things.
  Member B looks at Member A's list and says "hmmm I like idea 1, 4, 7, and maybe 9 but the rest don't fall in line with my existing policies or "ethics" so throw them out.  Cool, now I have some ideas to experiment with in my own shows to REINVENT some energy in it".  
 Now member C comes along and says I like ideas 2, 4, and 8 but I can't use, or refuse to use, the others- they have no use to me".  
 Member B now posts 5 things that hadn't been listed that they do in their shows and both Member A and C take what they can use or adapt into their own shows.  

Demonstration over.

Why is it that whenever someone even SUGGESTS something different, or daring, or crazy that doesn't fall in line with how YOU would run your show, the attacks begin???  you totally disregarded his input on technology, custom software and SUCCESSFUL show because he accepts bribes.  I have never seen you jump all over Joe at The Canton, or insult him, because he ACCEPTS bribes.  and yet that is ok.  How many local KJ's do you know who don't accepts bribes/tips??? other than you, I can only think of one- ME... how do ya like dem apples?

Lets say for arguments sake that EVERY karaoke host in the world didn't accept tips/bribes except for Toqer.  Who cares? it isn't up to you, or I, or any other KJ to say that what he does is WRONG.The people it is up to deciding whether it is acceptable or not, is his customers, the club management/owners and the market he is in will dictate his success or failure.... definitely not a bunch of ghosts in the machine...  boo...- tig

Knightshow said "no, I'm saying that why should I change when APPLES suit me just fine, and not only just me, but the majority of those of us that eat fruit.

You've got one vendor out there screaming adapt and open your mind, when what's in place now is just fine and accepted. The last thing I want or need is someone coming IN with a Lemon, and only accepting that as a standard and I'm the one that's wrong because I like apples"..

Pot meet kettle... kettle meet pot.

What have you been screaming the last few years matt??? (besides my name ) ADAPT AND OPEN YOUR MIND!!! PC and digital karaoke is the way to go blah blah blah... how many lemons did you bring to the apple eaters who were totally against digital karaoke, media transfer, or even burned backup disks??? if I recall, CDG's were just fine and accepted too... remember the saying "build it and they will come"??? well... he built it... they came... they stayed... it is a successful show so who is to say it is wrong??? nevermind, I can see you just can't get past the apples blocking your view...

Toqer stated .."Ask yourselves, am I trying to maintain a code of "Honor"? The simple fact all the replies that disagree with me have said "I once had this guy try and bribe me with <dollar amount>"  shows that at least some percentage of your crowd wants to be able to bribe you.  You are closing your minds off to the wants and needs of your customer.  Especially if you KJ in the USA."

Tigrr27, you and Toqer both keep claiming that we are "closed minded."  Why are you claiming that?....because we DON'T AGREE with you.  MY customers don't want to bribe me.  Those who expect to be treated like pompus kings and queens are not welcome where I work.  I still find it hilarious when the "pompous adittude" gets in my face and can't understand why I don't do things like where HE's from, or why his money isn't good enough.  And I tell him with mic in hand that he isn't any better than the rest of the people in here.  And to a standing ovation from the crowd TELLS me I am doing what THEY want.  MY COMMUNITY!.  

How about we just all agree to DISAGREE on ??Item #7 or whatever number it is on the "list" and move along.

Kelly

exactly. I may be sitting on my tiny chess square and shouting to the heavens, but it's because I disagree that I'm told I "have to open my mind".

I'm defending my position... ONLY doing that. I'm not insulting him/her.

By your scenario Tig, we already "reinvented the karaoke wheel" by being sticklers for the advancing of technology to help us... yet you yourself now are reversed on that stance, instead wanting a core skill level and ability to be a good host before allowing the technology to become the skill, not the tool to use.

Something I agree with btw.

I have no trouble with what Toqer is suggesting with his ideas, except for his own close-mindedness of those of us that are "successful" in the field with a current system that works well for us.

We all agree that there are problems out there and hopefully a reinvention will help, or at least getting back to good showmanship to make the karaoke wheel more effective. Yet we ourselves have first hand seen that the community doesn't WANT that invention to happen.

As with most things with progress, it's rarely to perfect all the bells and whistles. Usually when something is upgraded, you get a few things here and there, and that's about it... the public must accept these new standards AS standards. They complain and biyatch about it, but eventually they shrug their shoulders and move on.

You yourself refused to be a part of that degredation in the evolution of the wheel in our area, and took a strong stance that you really don't want anything to do with the publlic shows... again, something I respect and agree with.

I've seen enough of the "reinvention" and hardly any retention of the Loyalty... and if you do successfully upgrade the standard of the Wheel, eventually the standards will lower and you'll be performing more and more, for less and less. This has gradually happened just in the three year time period that we ourselves witnessed.  Why go the effort when the inevitable actually will happen?

Kettle signing off, saying