Karaoke Forums

well Barry, as of late, I AM speaking as someone that's going to be entering the fray hopefully very soon as a bar leasee.

But the point of this is that the owners make their decisions based on the almighty cash register. If your customers aren't doin' their job by supporting the venue, then they have been and always probably will make the tough decisions... and that is usually financially based! Not personally!

When you have customers that come to your gig but don't BUY something and aren't designated drivers only SPONGES that soak up the efforts without contributing to the greater cause... then you as the eyes and ears of the establishment can (and in my honest opinion SHOULD) do something about it.

I told a table of twenty-somethin's three weeks ago: "Pay for your water at the very least!" The owner agreed, and for "those" kind of people, he's bought water by the bottle, and sells it at an appropriate price.

Yes, like the gentlemen pointed out... sometimes someone is just down on their luck.

But a business is still a business. If you don't pay, you don't play!

Hope you didn't take my earlier comments wrong. I'm not putting down KJ's. On the contrary, I envy you. You have something I don't...Talent!

Now don't get me wrong, I can take an empty dance floor. And with the right words and the right audience participation song, I can pack a dance floor. But I never can see the excitment I see with Karaoke singers.

Point in Case:

27 years ago, when I was 19. I walked into a little hole in the wall bar, on a backroad in a small neighborhood in a Hong Kong suburb. Little did I know those 12 or so people in the bar could'nt speak a word of English. Nor I Chinese.

When I wandered up to the bar and ask for a Vodka Collins, they looked at me like I was a foreigner. So I pointed to the guys beer next to me and held out a hand full of money, and let him take what he needed.

I turned around to watch the guy singing Karaoke (On 8 Tracks by the way, with no lyrics.) and the next thing I know I have a microphone stuck in my face. I proceded to tell him no, but the whole bar was edging me on. So I sang, (It wasn't a pretty site) but I sang.

A few beers, and lots of songs later I left. The point I'm making is: Then, and now, as a Dj I can't generate that kind of excitement and atmosphere. I can make people get up and dance, but not have the interaction and fun that Karaoke produces.

I've been on a DJ forum for the past 2 years. Even purchased my DJ software from them. But when I stumbled across this site 2 months ago. I haven't been back yet!!!


A Triple Tray Karaoke Player...................$319.00
A New Wireless Mic.................................$249.00
The Latest Released Karaoke CD.............$17.99

The Friends you meet on Karaokescene Forum............Priceless



Sorry about the novel...Just my thoughts

DJ Jim

Berry,

I think in my book you have just made a new friend... because I'll tell ya,
You just have said what I have been trying to tell this Online Discussion Board for Years!!!

Will They Listen? Probably Not!

But It's Great to see another Person Who has mastered the art of How to run a Entertainment business independantly.. not as a puppet of an alcohol establishment... no wonder so many pubs can't show a profit.. and the shows that work for them.. can't either... it seems to go hand in hand.. does anyone else seem to follow my point?

If they do... They will understand why I have been preaching like I have.
There is a successful formula to winning and making money in a market where undercutters exist and bad vvenues tend to wanna control how much you make.. but you still can stay busy and STILL name Your own Price and stay busy 5 nights a week! Without investing a fortune in a system.

Having just reread my last post I concede that it was a bit vicious but I still firmly believe that it is my job to entertain or give my singers everything they need so that THEY can entertain.
I get no help from the bar staff, they don't pay for my discs, they don't set up my equipment.
If, as I do, you run busy shows how on earth are you supposed to check what people are drinking?
Can you tell the difference, at a glance, between a Smirnoff Black Ice in a glass and a glass of sparkling water. No, nobody can.
Much as I would enjoy tasting everybody's drink I don't think the audience would be too pleased.
Let the Bar owners run their bar and let me run my karaoke.
It simply isn't a problem over here and I genuinely doubt that any bar is going to go out of business just because a couple of people are drinking water.
If that's not the kind of trade they want why don't they simply turn them away or charge them for the water. Couldn't be easier.
Just off for another vodka! (Or is it just water? Can you tell at a glance?)

_________________
Imagine!

Sorry, multiple post for some reason

_________________
Imagine!

Sorry

_________________
Imagine!

And again

_________________
Imagine!

_________________
Imagine!

Well Barry, we all know what big drinkers you Brits are................

Seriously tho, here it can be a problem. My regular gig is FINALLY starting to pick up some steam, but the owner tells me every night how many people are drinking coke, or just ordering a plate of fries. He believes if it isn't alcohol- it shouldn't count. Keep in mind this is a Diner, that unless I'm there has an empty bar.

I guess my point here is that even if everybody is ordering something, there is no guarantee the owner will be happy.

Remember, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please a bar owner ANYTIME!!!!

_________________
Let's Kick the Tires and Light the Fires!

Just tell him the truth (remember I'm in England)!
The mark-up on Coke (no alcohol tax) is much larger than on beer or spirits!
The mark-up on food is even better!
I cannot be held responsible for Bar Owners with no brain!
I have held down my shows for a long time and not once has any employer of mine pulled me on what their customers are drinking! It is not my job, it's their's!
If they want to come round to my place and resolder a lead or two and generally take over the upkeep of my gear then I will employ someone (I'm too busy) to monitor their sales!
If not (and I suspect that this will be the case) THEY can employ somebody to do it for them if, indeed, they are incapable of doing it themselves!

_________________
Imagine!

absolutely!!!

Cokes are sold for around the same price as a beer. Although I'll admit, people will nurse a coke much more than they will a beer! But I've also seen the cheepies nurse a beer all night long! (Yuck! Old, warm stale beer! BLEH!)

The bar I started out at... had a rule: 1 drink an hour, or out you go!

I thought it was a bit harsh, but it did eliminate the cola drinkers. People realized they had to participate in the bar. That's who's paying for karaoke.

I like what I am reading in most posts, Barry you are right on it. Most bars will sell "Bottled Water" for $2 at least thats a sale in itself or they have a 2 drink minimum but sometimes its hard to monitor. Most KJ's if they are working with the Club owners and managers and even the bartenders can have "Specials" every hour, make it exciting and have a "Free" drink on the house during the show. One every 2 hours the house can certainly afford that, but it has to be what the person is already drinking to be a free drink or just serve a well or beer. This business of Dollars and cents is hard right now with the economy in the shape its going and even harder for Karaoke singers going out anymore to spend their paychecks.

Either the club owners work with the KJ's or we will end up like this club in California, charging a $5 cover with a 2 drink minimum. And the one thing that got me was a beer was $5 a well drink $5 a cosmo $8 and people were paying for it. In order to pay the KJ what he was worth, they had no choice but to up the ante for those who wanted to come and sing. Total??
100 people at $5 apiece, average price per cust for a drink $5 times 2, and a two drink minimum, the bar makes at least $1500 for a Sunday, the KJ gets paid fairly, the customer ends up spending $20 (tips included,) and its a harsh reality, but everyone makes something off it. I like the discounted shows myself because I know I'm going to spend at least that much when I go out. In todays economy we need to work with the clubs to be able to make our money and they can make theirs. Water drinkers have to learn that without real "Business" from our customers we dont have a job anymore...just my few cents....

I'm a karaoke singer, smoker and a drinker. I consume my share of After Shock (a cinnamon beverage). I buy for me, I buy for my friends (some of which are "water drinkers", I tip my bartenders well and I have even been known to tip the KJ (sometimes helps with the rotation ) and I really don't understand all the fuss. Maybe these "water drinkers" are poor or down on their luck, maybe they are the designated driver, whatever. It has nothing to do with their ablity to sing.

As for bottled water, well most of the bars I sing in don't carry it.

I drink and sing in bars, not clubs or lounges and tipically we don't see a lot of wealthy folk in these venues, just a lot of people trying to make ends meet. Sometimes there is not enough money at the end of the bills. I'm lucky to be able to afford my drinks. The cost of drinks can be a little outragous anyway.

A while back I use to follow a couple KJs arround from venue to venue, cause they treated me well and appreciated my attendance. There are those of us singers who have carried equipment, carried books and sometimes even carried the shows. What we drank had little to do with our ablity to sing or preform. Some of us even have a following of our own, which brings with it additional business...

What is all the fuss? Is karaoke only for those who can afford to drink? If so then you'll miss hearing some very good singers...

I love to sing. I'd sing everyday if I could. I never realized how many frustrations there were for KJs, with "water drinkers", people copying disc, and such.

Those same water drinkers might spend a lot of money on drinks when they have it. At least the ones I know.

I'm glad all I have to worry about is my next song, guess that's why I never desired to be a KJ. I thought karaoke was suppose to be fun.

_________________




[glow=blue]Tequila & A Song
KKid[/glow]

but if the bar is more worried about profits, and you have a lot of people that are abusing the service, you won't have fun at that venue... for they'll can the entertainment, or at least make a change.

One bad problem with karaoke... it has a bad reputation of attracting water drinkers!

If the KJ's and the Bars are promoting Karaoke night together, the water drinkers will be the "Minority" not the majority. With the economy today, and prices as high as ever for a night out, say for dinner and a movie for 2 people, thats over $100.00 or more.....going to a dance club, or the theater, or a concert, same thing. Karaoke is no different. We charge for our services, (which by many standards is "Underpaid") and the club makes out like a bandit. Example: The waitress or Bartender, starting at 9pm on a Friday night til 2am in the morning makes a minimum wage of approx. $7 to $10 per hour plus tips. approximatly $150 to $250 per night (the bartender probably more,) say the club has a 2 drink minimum and the club seats 100 people. At $5 average per drink, the club will make approximatly $1000 just off the average. Minimum tip per waitress on the floor (lets say 2 or 3,) $2 to $5 depending on the service and how they react to the customers. Now lets take the KJ, who has to set up his equipment, put up with the rowdiness of the crowd, the singers wishes, the owners demands, having to keep everyone happy, making drink special announcements, reminding the audience and singers to take care of the staff of the club, and the KJ just gets his flat salary for his 8pm to 2am slot of work, or a few dollars in tips if they are lucky. The water drinkers are the least of the KJ's worries. (Sorry if I go on about this, but there is so much more to doing a show than the water drinkers,) If the club is advertising with the Kj and their company, and giving the consumer and singers an atmosphere that "Makes" them want to come and sing, and spend money,(I feel the 2 drink minimum should be enforced at all shows, it guarantees the house and our shows in getting paid,) Karaoke is still the most "Inexpensive" and fun way to go out during the week to have a good time. Yes water drinkers are a problem, but so is keeping our job and doing a good show for a fair wage. When you go to your next show, I hope you will remember what it takes for the clubs and the KJ's to bring karaoke to the public and even the Water Drinkers, and remember we all have to make it possible by "Participating" and buying at least one drink, to keep all our jobs going....

I had one club that got real bad with the water drinkers. The result was they got to where they were taking up 1/3 to 1/2 of the rotations. We tried explaining numerous times that the club was paying a substantial fee for the karaoke and would appreciate their support by buying drinks. For the non-alcahol types there were sodass, juices, coffee, tea, etc. available, but please spend something so as to help the club bring in enough to continue supporting the karaoke. The problem was not only the fact that they took up so much time during the rotation, but the money spenders were getting upset as they were spending good money while the free-loaders were getting the same opportunities to sing. The final answer was we started charging at the door. However, when you paid, you got tickets that were exchangable at the bar. So as long as you bought 3 drinks or so, you got your money back. Its just that if all you wanted to drink was water, at least you contributed to the cost of Karaoke. After a few weeks of that, the water drinkers left and everyone had a better time. The crouds actually grew larger because you didn't have a bunch of free-loaders using up a lot of time.

Sounds like a plan! It just might work that charge at the door and exchange at the bar thing.....

_________________




[glow=blue]Tequila & A Song
KKid[/glow]

There's a venue here that does it, and if this one I'm eyin' works out, that's what we'll do!

After the first 2 wks or so the water drinkers thinned out some. Those that
stuck around started buying. Some of the regulars complained a little, but
they still showed up. After about 3 wks or so, there weren't quite as many
in the crowd, but soon after that it built right back up. One trick is to make
sure its explainned to them that as long as they have 2 or 3 drinks they'll
get their money back - its not really costing them anything, but just that
everyone attending needs to contribute to the cost of putting the karaoke
on.