Karaoke Forums

I just came back from vacation in CA.... I told a friend about great my karaoke system until he brought me to his neighbor.  I was total impressed of his karaoke system.  He used Crest Audio and Crown to drive 2 pairs of speakers, JBL 18" and Tannoy (I don't know the models).  The JBL for music and Tannoy for vocal.  The rest of his gigs were BBE 882i and 482i, Yamaha mixer, a sound processor and Shure 87A wireless mics.  What I was most impressed were a new karaoke player called M-Player.  Its removable hard-drive could store thousands of songs.  Most his songs were copied from DVDs (Chinese), much like a mini-PC of its own.  For $260, I bought one myself directly from the manufacture which sold high volumes to Asia.  I'll try to test some CD+G to see if it works.  Anyways, I got side-tracked.  I'll revisit this new toy after I have it checked out.

I have good budget to upgrade/add more speakers like what I experienced at my friend's neighbor (even I couldn't understand the language - Chinese - beautiful songs though).  I currently have:

- Mackie CFX-12 mixer
- Pair of Yamaha S112V speakers
- QSC 2450 amp
- Crown CE2000 amp (spare)
- Lexicon MPX-110
- BBE 882i and 482i
- DBX EQ
- 2 Shure 87A wireless mics

These are good but not great as his setup.  I am looking to add an subwoofer and 2 monitors for vocals.

How can I hook up 2 pairs of speakers/monitors and a sub to my mixer?  I would like to separate the music and vocal to each pair of speakers.  How do I use the Lexicon MPX110 processor on only vocal and not the music?

Your reply(ies) is/are greatly appreciated...  Thanks in advance!

Michael

Ok, I'm gonna give this a shot.

First off, you should be able to hook the lexicon directly to the mixer and use the effects when ever and where ever you want. Look for Insert Effects on the back of the mixer or refer to the operating manual.

I'm not sure why you would want to seperate your vocals from the music mix but you can hook them up as you would monitors which will require the use of both amps or one channel of the amp for music and one channel for vocals however this would now be a mono mix not stereo. for true stereo you will need two amps.

I believe many of your questions will be answered best by Mackie. Check out this link. http://www.mackie.com/products/cfx12/index.html

Hope I helped some.
John

I can't see any advantage of using seperate speakers for the music and the vocal. You may want to add a subwoofer to your system since you already have a set spare speakers.

And the BBE; you dont need it you already have a good system.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

You Have The Ideal Mixer For What You Want To Do! Many People Using This Forum Use It Also,(Per Recommendation From Lonman) The MACKIE-CFX Is The Perfect Karaoke Mixer!, Use Your AUX SENDS To Create Two Different Monitor Mixes With A Passive Speaker/Amplifier Setup OR Powered Speaker Setup Plugged Into Aux 1 or 2. You Can Adjust Percentages Of Music/Vocals/Effects Into Each Mix. It Also Has A Subwoofer Out To Plug A Subwoofer/Amplifier Setup Or A Powered/Subwoofer Into.  :read:

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Man Must Know His Limitations -Clint Eastwood

Actually, when I was playing in my band, we separated our music from our vocals, as did most of the other bands we worked with. I had my own separate vocal PA, then the guitarists both had their own separate PA stacks and the drum was amplified through it's own system as well. We did feed their instrument outputs into my PA feed and have them BARELY in the background, just so I could hear them, but otherwise, each instrument was basically on it's own independent PA.

I think the main reason for this is that in live music, the speakers are much more taylored to reproducing certain instruments, i.e. a bass guitar cab with 16 eight inch woofers reproduces a bass guitar sound much better than a big PA sub and a Marshall stack will do the same for electric guitar.

So I don't see any problem with having separate feeds for vocals and music for karaoke, but since both are intended to be reproduced on a standard PA, it is really just a waste of extra equipment and likely much harder to EQ than a complete mix, so I'm not sure there would be any PRO to doing so!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Well Tannoy is a studio monitor.  Not sure WHY he would have 2 BBE's hooked up.  Were the JBL 18's just subs, or did they have more speakers in them (3 way).  I could see using the JBL subs & the Tannoy for the top cabs.
What I would do in your situation, get a sub - could be a powered sub or you could get a sub/amp combo.  A powered sub such as the JBL JRX118 has a crossover built in.  If you go with the sub/amp combo, you would just use the subwoofer out on the mixer.  To hook up the BBE, you don't need to, there is no added benefit, use the 482 in the main output insert jack.  You will need the correct insert cables for this.  For the Lexicon, you would need to hook it up to the exf send from the mixer to the input on the Lex.  From the output on the Lex I would actually patch it back into a channel - this gives you more options as eq or sending the signal to the monitor if you really want.  This will allow you to effect just the vocal, plus using the internal effects, you can also layer an effect over another effect.
For monitors, use the Aux 1 & 2 sends to go to your monitor amp/speakers, this will indivualize your monitors from the mains.

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Thanks all for your replies.  I would think my friend's neighbor have unlimited budget and live in $2M home.  He may got ripped with unnesessary speakers/additions.

I think he has 3-way 18" JBL speakers.  The only reason I seek your opinions about 2 speaker pairs because his system sounded so good that I am willing to upgrade.

I am still little confused about hooking the effects to vocals.  I connect my DVD/CD+G player to Stereo Line In (TRS input).  Where do you normally have it hooked up?  Tape In?  How does the EFX send/return affect each of the Channel In?  I read the manual.  I have a good system... but still a newbie.

Thanks for your help again.

Well his system may have sounded good, but completely unecessary for home use.  It ALMOST sounds like he has a home recording studio set-up that he doubles for his karaoke as well.  As I said Tannoy speakers are recording studio grade monitors & the JBL sounds like the switch back monitor for real life sound.  Or he just had an insane budget for a karaoke system.

I still think all you will need is a good sub, this will give you a nice rounded low end sound that the S112's can't provide.  You really only need one & since you have the Crown amp as a spare, just get a good 18" sub., run the subwoofer output to the crown amp.
Your player is hooked up correctly through the stereo input - either channels 9/10 or 11/12.
The efx send/rtn loop will only affect the channels you assign that you want effect in.

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Great info, Lonman.  Thanks.

Am I restricted to feed the Lexicon in Mono (EFX Send 1) and return in Stereo (EFX Return L&R)?  Or any benefit by using Send 1/Return LEFT, and Send 2/Return RIGHT?

For the price difference of my spare amp which I can put on eBay, would you recommend the powered sub JBL JRX118sp over Crown CE2000 + JBL JRX118s?

You'll have a better amp if you just buy  the non-powered sub.  I'd keep it.

Running the effects input mono isn't a big deal, you get a stereo effect out.  If you want 2 independant effects, you would just run the efx 1 out to the left input & efx 2 out to the right input & bypass the internal effects altogether.

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With an 18" passive JBL JRX118s sub, are my Yamaha S112V good enough.... or S115V can even better?  Local Guitar Center has pair of S115V that they are willing to trade my S112V pair + $100.

Having previously owned Carvin 1584s (3-way speakers) in the past, I know that the midrange driver makes a big difference in vocals.  You may want to audition 3-way and 2-way speakers to hear the difference.  My new setup uses 2-way speakers with a sub and I am quite happy with it.  However, if I have to do it all over again, I would buy powered 3-way speakers and 2 subwoofers.

Just my opinion.

Try the sub first with your current setup, then if you feel you need more, you can upgrade the mains later.

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Ca ra ok, can you tell me where I can check out this new player?

Lonman, many thanks!

I played around with the Lexicon last night.  The sound went bad when I turn the EFX (ext) past "U".  It's the one unit I bought from eBay and maybe defective.  Hopefully user problem.  I prefer using Send 1 and Return L&R than Send1/ReturnL and Send2/ReturnR.

Just bought a JBL JRX118s.  My spare amp is Crown CE1000, not CE2000.  It's still plenty of power (bridged), I think.



I tried to learn the remote last night, and I couldn't turn off the voice from the demo songs.  I called the manufacture (quick service).  The player needs latest firmware upgrade.  Will update you soon.

The JBL JRX118S arrived yesterday.  I need little help here trying to hook them up.  Is this right?

Mixer: Out -----------> DBX EQ ----> BBE 882i ----> QSC ----------> Yamaha S112V speakers
        : Sub Out 1----> BBE 362 (chn A) ----> CROWN (chn A) ----> JBL JRX118s sub


Side note - what "good" patch cables are you using?  I use Monster Cables.  Some said they are overpriced.

On your mixer out diagram, i'd put the BBE in front of the EQ.
On the sub out diagram - lose the BBE entirely.  If you want the benefit of the BBE for both the sub & mains, run ONE BBE (the 882) via the mixers 'main insert' jacks.

Monster cables are overpriced & unless you are running audiphile gear from start to finish, you aren't going to reap much benefit.  Go with standard line cables, they don't have to be the cheapest, but not the most expensive either.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I'd like to take a crack at this one if I may.

If you stay with your S112V's as opposed to going with the S115V's , You'll get much better vocal separation once you add your subwoofer. This way you get the best of both worlds : 1). More defined and clearer vocals
                              2). Plenty of bottom end bass for the music

This will give you a really nice set up. The only other thing I'd add to it is a good graphic E.Q. Sounds like you're well on your way, man. Good Luck,
                                                                                 Brian

Interesting thread. If this blokes system sounded better than yours, could it be that he is a more experianced sound engineer than you are.
Two sets of speakers really really are not necessary.
Also 2 way v 3 way.
To eliminate feedback the mid is the first thing you drop off.
3 way is far better for music, but when it comes to vocals at volume it can simply fight you.

ca ra ok,

Could you give me information about the M-Player?
I am very interested in getting one.

Thanks,