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I did not want to jump in the other thread about vocal enhancement, but I am concerned with my new mixer and mic. It seems the Shure sm58 is less forgiving than the senheiser 815s that I have. What I mean by this, is that the shure mic seems like it is sharper, thus creating a harsher sound. I sing alot of Guns n Roses, Bon Jovi etc.. I was trying to get the compressor into the mix, and it seems to flatten the notes, or maybe it is just me?

Also, Is there a way to use the mixer to achieve higher notes from already high notes? Hrm.. ok so there is a song by Stryper called honestly, and I can get pretty high, but am just off a note or so below.

I am just full of questions, and I thank you all very much for your insight!

 
 
Less forgiving is a very accurate term for Shure, it takes what is good and can make it better or it can take what is slightly off and makes Shure everyone hears it, so to speak.  
Okay take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. I have found that most Karaoke singers want the PA/mic to do the work for them. Yes, you can use your PA/mixer to boost your tone and enhance your voice, but let's talk about the reality of singing. Most singers are inexperienced when it comes to real time on stage, example being they've never had to sing with a real band, or Karaoke is a hobby sport to them. It takes time to properly use a Shure mic, but at the same time that's why you find some of your better shows use them, and some of your better singers go to those shows. For the average person, the lower end Sennheisers work very well, because they tend to enhance the highs just a bit more giving the less experienced singer a better comfort zone. Shures seem to hit the mid range best for most singers, but the more you use them, the better control you can have with them. But once you get use to what a Shure can do for you, I think you'll prefer it over the particular Sennheiser that you mentioned. This is just my opinion though, but an opinion backed up by over 30 years of live stage experience.  
As for the singing higher notes. My speaking voice is somewhat deep, but I can sing most higher range stuff by backing off on power and volume and using more headspace and throat control. Some singers will try to sing higher stuff at full volume and find out it doesn't work for them. So what you want to do is back off a bit and try the higher notes at a softer volume, this allows your breathing to be able to stretch a bit more. It takes practice.  
Two types of examples power vs volume. Rob Halford known for his ungodly screaming vocals in his earlier days, used power to force his voice into a higher range. Today he does good to even hit half of what he was capable of doing.  
Same with Axel Rose, used power to project his voice and almost blew out his voice completely. Both singers should have listened to their vocal coach a bit closer, that is if they even had one. On the other hand, take Mariah Carey, who can sing at an incredibly high range and you never see her break a sweat. It's using your natural headspace and throat control to sustain your breathing, projecting at a lower power and hitting higher notes. So the next time you sing the song you mentioned, when it comes to the higher note, try backing off and singing the higher note less forced. I think you'll find marked improvement. Also you'll find that you hardly ever get winded because you're controlling your breathing a bit more. You voice is an instrument and a tool, it has a right way to be used and a wrong way.  
Now I'm just speaking for what works for me, and I prefer this method much better than trying to come off with a falsetto voice which sounds cheesy.  
Again, this is just my opinion. I'm sure there will be others with different opinions especially on the mics. But good rule of thumb on any advice given, take the best, dump the rest.  
 
James  
Maninblack  
Karaoke Host

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That is some great advice, I do notice that if I back off and stretch my throat a bit, I can hit higher notes, but they do not come out strong if you know what I mean. I have never had lessons on singing, but I had a speach coach, and he was always preaching to project your voice so it fills a room. I take that approach with singing and it works real well on most songs, but the higher pitch songs are a little weaker. I will just have to  learn to project a little more on the higher stuff.

You are also right about the mic, it is really sensitive, where my senheiser had a warmer type tone, and was not very sensitive. I think it is just adjustments as of right now. Thank  you very much!

I have 3 cordless SM58s.   I do not like the sound of them for my voice.    They sound cold to me.   My favorite microphone is my Audio Technica.   It's a warmer sound.

90% of the time I sing, you can barely hear me if you are standing close to me.    I have much better control of my voice for doing the impersonations that I do.

The 58 is a mic that you have to eat if you are not a trained opera singer. It is more adaptable and tailored to use basic mic tecniques that cant be used on other mics...

 Higher pitched sounds travel farther with less energy Low pitched sounds can go around corners.  

With a stage momitor using mimimal fx practice with the 58 on several songs learn proper mic tecniques. When you learn how to use a mic then you will shun the cheaper ones for you struggle because you cant use proper mic tecniques to use your full range and singing ability... With hte 58 you will find a proper distance and mic angle for your voice in all situations..

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If your compressor set up properly, you should get the same percieved volume and fullness from those lightly sung high notes as you would get from a powerful note right in your range. Here are dbx's recommended compressor/limiter levels for vocals:

Medium attack time
Fairly slow release
4:1 Compression Ratio
Adjust the thresholds until you are getting about 6-10 dBs of gain reduction
Ajust the output gain until you get your output back to nominal levels

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C Mc
KJ, FL

How about taking the music down a key instead of straining your voice, or buying more equipment.

Just a though, we all ain't Rob Halford

Even the pro drop the key down when they start to age. Yes I do that first; infact I do it 2 steps down first, and then move up 1 step and then try the original key.

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Every professional singer, sings the song in their key.    Diehards at karaoke think they have to do it as it was written or their manhood is in jeapardy.    I sing one that has to go down 4 and I do one that goes up 3.    Real men sing in the key that works best for them.  :worship:

I can't sing Toby Keith in the original key; 3 up is where I'll do them.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Jian, when you reach puberty, you will sing it in his key.

I would love to change the key, could anyone tell me how to do it with the equipment I have? I dont see a key changer on my yamaha mixer.

Mixer do not normaly have a key changer; but many player do. If you are pc base the hosting program may have it. I use JVC triple t and it have a good key changer. But at home I use my PC and winamp. The Pacemaker plugin for changing key is good at the job.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Thank you very much! I am not currently using pacemaker, I am using the cdg and dfx pluggins. I will check that out!

if you are just using cdg off computer just for your home use then you may like to set the key permanently. Throw the mp3 portion into any good editing software...cool edit pro or adobe audition (they are the same prog) and change the key and save it in the key that best suits your voice

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I scanned the posts and don't thing anyone mentioned this; forgive me if it's a repeat of an earlier post.

I think the first and easiest way to make the sound less harsh is to vary the distance between the mic and your mouth when you record.  I think somebody may have said this but I wasn't sure- it sounded like there were some suggestions to lower the volume or the key, all of which might work.  But in my practical singing experience, some higher notes can only be sung loudly.  (At least at first, while you're adjusting to singing them, I find you have to go boldly, as they say in Star Trek, and then finesse from there once the note is physically in your voice).

When you see singers in concert, they usually move their mic arm back and forth towards their mouth, often "eating the mic" for low notes or an effect.  But when they're screeching in the Bohemian Rhapsody range, they move the mic as far as possible away from their mouths and often will tilt the mic to adjust the way the note is being picked up (it helps to know what TYPE of mic you're using, cardioid, unidirectional, omnidirectional, etc. to know what angle is best- therefore I recommend not changing the mic angle until you've experimented a bit; for now try moving the arm closer or further from your mouth, being careful to keep the angle consistent towards your mouth- it takes practice and I think it's all in the wrist.)

Other than that, there is, as was suggested, lowering the key or volume.

A few technical pointers, take them or leave them, this is not based on recordings of whoever posted this message:  When singing up, think down.  I won't go into why this is technically good.  Be careful not to go flat on the pitch, just concentrate on thinking of falling down a hole or a flight of stairs or something and see if it's easier for you, if not, disregard it.

The other thing is what I like to call "yelling head" in my studio.  (I work with a lot of kids....)  When we whisper, in library voice, we make a smaller space inside our heads.  If you yell, instinctively, you will feel your facial muscles kind of flare and flex outward to a larger space.  Use this "yelling head space" when you are singing higher notes.  Too often, we feel insecure about the high notes and close to library space as opposed to yell space, and it's physically difficult to impossible to do this with any subtlety or finesse.

Hope this helps!!!

that is a most concise explaination and explained in such a way that makes very sound sense.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Wow that is great advice! Thank you. I have noticed that I can hit these notes sometimes if I close my throat a little. Also, If I tilt my head and open my arms, this appears to free myself from being bound up.

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