Karaoke Forums

Bar fined for holding karaoke



(Fairfield-WTNH, Mar. 21, 2006 11:00 PM) _ Owners of a Fairfield restaurant are singing the blues.

A judge has ruled against the place for holding karaoke nights without getting the proper license.

The Bear and Grill restaurant was hauled into federal court, accused of copyright infringements. An investigator with Broadcast Music Incorporated was in the place at the time karaoke was being played. BMI is asking for 40 thousand dollars in fines.

I don't get it...  How could playing an artist's songs with karaoke be any different than a local band playing their songs?

Judges let the whiners get away with way too much if you ask me...

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---wallyd

This means karaoke and original music are viewed the same, which in turn, has to mean that the rules for making a copy will have to be the same......great news for computer formatt copying........jj

It's no different. All ASCAP or BMI care about is that the songwriters are being paid for the public broadcasting of their work. The result would have been the same if a local band was in there playing a cover of their song...

The title of this thread might as well have been "Bar fined for not paying royalty fees", but "playing karaoke" sounds so much more interesting!

It is exactly the same, places playing live "cover" music have to have licensing just as any karaoke venue must have that same license PLUS the addition for graphics reproduction on tv's.  Sounds like the judge is ruling correctly!  But I agree with Matt it should have stated for not paying publishing fees instead of "holding karaoke".

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WTNH,  Fairfield CT obviously.

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Matt and Lonnie-

It sounds so much more INTERESTING  to say Karaoke !     I saw this news on our local FOX station --RIGHT AFTER AMERICAN IDOL on Tuesday

Does anyone know of how much it costs for a yearly license from BMI?

depends on the size of the venue, the tempermant of the bar, etc... There IS no direct formula... sometimes they go by how many seats are filled, etc.

It's also why I 'bout went crazy trying to get the owner of the place I currently (well for the next month anyway) run karaoke... he's doing this "BMI and ASCAP are just the Mafia in disguise" and refuses to pay.

They're going to shut him down eventually!

Depends on a lot of factors. Check it out here.....
http://www.bmi.com/licensing/forms/ede.pdf

pretty confusing or at leas not very black and white

and that's only the 'guidelines"...

the reps that talked with Joe, the owner of the bar I work at, originally started out at $595 for the year. He refused, siting all sorts of examples why... how he does karaoke only on a Sat night. That he normally only brings in $600... (which doesn't hold water... you're talking 1/50th of what you bring in!!)

so the rep went down even lower... and lower. Finally he had it down to $295 for the year. I was going "TAKE IT!!" and Joe refused, citing instead that he'll pay the songwriter's specifically. He took the basic figure of $.10 a song to go to the songwriter...

he's yet to pay anything!

It's hard to make a call on that without knowing all the facts. I did find another article  on it. I too would have to know the size of the place and how much money they were making and if it is  a  venue with music as it's main attraction. When facts are sketchy it usually indicates dealings of a darker nature like they werent members of the local "family".

Mom and Pop businesses are being forced out (along with small farmers) of business at an alarming rate. Are we going to let greed consume more and more power to feed the insatiable addiction?
 What happened to the restaraunt owner's rights and the laws which prevent cruel and unusual punishment? Or are the officials of our government immune to the laws that they establish for the general population?  

They will pry my mouse out of my cold and clammy hand!!!!

Wow... I wish music was still about music, not about how much money one could make. I'd like to think that if I ever made it famous, it would be an honor that someone would want to sing or listen to my songs while their having a good time at an establishment with their friends... it wouldn't be about the money.

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Just when I think I have a "side" with this issue, karyoker comes in with a great point.

Is the karaoke the main attraction?

My understanding, although limited, was if you pay for the cd at a store you can play it as long as you are not making money on it.  The same applies with movies.  If you don't charge, no problem.  Why are they called VCR's anyway?!!

Also, all the cd/dvd burning hardware/software out there makes you kinda makes you go hmmmm.

I have mixed emotions on this issue.  Although I agree you should pay for music, I think once you pay for it your done.  No fees afterwards.

IMHO

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Money is the reason why most get into the music business in the first place.  Would you really want someone taking 1 copy of your cd & making it available for anyone & everyone without you making a dime>?  I agree it would be great if people wanted to hear me or my band, however, I wouldn't get into the music business for free.  It's a legitimate business like anything else.  
Look at sports, I think that NO player should get as much as they make, but just like anything, they get paid to play & money IS the reason they do!  If they said anything else, they'd be lying which is why they negotiate for million to multi-million dollar contracts!

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the burning software, vcrs, etc are okay as long as it's for your home enjoyment. Or to protect your investment. You see the disclaimer on any broadcast show, usually at the end? Always something like "no unauthorized duplication is allowed by law... no public broadcast... for home use only"

the whole reason for ascap/bmi in the first place is to protect the intellectual property of the songwriters. I think they SHOULD get paid for every time you use their product to sustain your business.

So what I am to understand is it is possible for the bar to be taken to court not
the KJ? Or did the bar owner own the equipment?
My fear someday since I am computer based is that I'm going to have to sort through all my CDGs to prove I originally bought all the music. My discs are all over the place. I've even given some of them away. I had a lot of old Sound choice CDGs
that were worn out (the graphics looked like confetti) I just threw them out.

Before I started coming on this site I didn't even know there was a problem with cpoying CDGs to my computer.

I realize technically they could go after a KJ, but this sounds like they are targeting the bar owners.

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You're talking two different animals, Babs.

ASCAP / BMI goes after the venue owner. If you had your own place, then it would be you they're going after.

The karaoke police for kjs is the manus themselves...

As for the discs you've given away, you're now in hot water as you can't PROVE that you won them. The people you gave them away to now own them, so you can't claim you own the discs you've given away. Because you physically don't own them anymore. It's not a measure of if you PAID for them or not. You have to have the physcal discs.

I have the pioneer lasers converted, and they're sitting in my closet right now... Trust me, I'd love to get rid of those suckers, but then I couldn't play them on my computer... at least not "legally".

My "legal" standpoint I've always gone by is if you physically own them, the actual media shouldn't matter. So my recommendation to you is to get some binders and put your cdgs, broken or scratched or whatever, all into one area... that's your proof to show a judge if you're ever challenged!

Something that I started long ago might be a good idea also.  In addition to having all my originals stored away, I keep records of every disc bought, be it through Paypal, credit card, etc.  Not only do I then have a record of disc, company # etc, I also have the paper work to show.  Might be easier for court if need be.  It also let's me know how much of an investment I currently have in music.  Right now it's in the neighbor hood of $15,000. actually paid.  Give's me an idea if I ever want to get out of the business as to how much I have invested.

Kelly

I think that unless you have the physical disks in your possession they can nail you.  Just because you have receipts doesn't mean you are following the law. You could have bought all the CDs...copied them, and then sold them to recover your money.  Then two people have the music for one sale of each CD.