Karaoke Forums

I bought a 7.1 Yamaha receiver. It said that it supports 120 watts per speaker.

I've been looking into quite a few speakers.
Mackie, BMB, JBL, Voco pro, Audio2000s' etc..

Most of these speakers are at least 200 watts per speaker.
Will I have any problems with the 200 watts and above speakers  if
I hook them into my yamaha receiver that only supports 120 watts per speaker.

 That depends. Are those wattage ratings for continuous or peak power?


                                Donny "B"

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It's a wonderful life!!

Oh.. I don't even know about that.
I better go home and read the manual see what it said.
I paid like 9 hundred bucks for that reciever and I can't return it.

so.. are you saying it's o.k to use speakers that support 200 watts and above
if that 120 watts is continious. And it's not o.k if it's peak??

No one said it's ok to underpower speakers....An underpowered speaker will blow just as quickly as an overpowered cab.

There is an old rule associated with equipment selection....FIRST select the speakers to properly fill the expected sound field at adequate levels, THEN select the amp that properly poweres the speakers.

In other words,  i'm stuck with my yamaha reciever?
So it's either I get speakers with 120 watts or get a new receiver that
support more than 200 watts per speakers??

 I wouldn't say you're "stuck" with the Yamaha. Just pay attention to the Ohms and power rating of the speakers you're going to purchase. Also the guage and length of the speaker cables. They all go hand in hand. Like you mentioned earlier...read the manual....it SHOULD have all the info you'll need. I'm no expert, but that little "formula" has always worked for me. Just trying to help. I'm SURE there are others out here more versed in the technical aspects than I am.


                                Donny "B"

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Good rule of thumb is you want your amp power to double the RMS rating of the speaker ie speaker handles 200 watts RMS into 8 ohms, your amp should be able to push 400 watts into 8 ohms.  But this is a guide designed more for pro use, but many "audiophiles" live by this as well for their home systems.
Karaoke through standard stereo equipment generally don't work hand in hand for the most part.

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You can buy reciever that support 400 watts per speaker????

Maybe I've been shopping for reciever at the wrong places.
I went to bestbuy, circuitcity, and some local audio stores, I couldn't
find anything that support more than 150 watts per speaker.

Where do I find those?
How much do they cost?
What are some of the brands/models?

 I may be wrong (again??) but methinks maybe you should look at different speakers, not a receiver. I'm assuming this is for home use, has surround capabilities, therefore, you really don't need humongous, watt sucking, speakers. Check out surround sound SPEAKER packages that fall into the wattage range of your receiver. I'm fairly certain that's all you have to do .

                            Donny "B"

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 Just for clarity sake...is this the HTR 5890?


                    Donny "B"

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It's a wonderful life!!

No most home receivers are geared for listening to music & home theater.   The higher powered audiphile amps you can get up into the 2000 watt range some even higher, but these are designed again for pure listening nothing live - which karaoke is 50% live.  

Honestly you'd be better off getting a small karaoke system designed for just that & leave the home theater to do what it does best.

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Go check out teh Klipsch line of speakers......I have a set of Klipsch bookshelf speakers that are no larger than a foot tall but put out better sound than most tower speakers I have ever heard. They cost me $200 each back in the day and still sound as good as the day I bought them 8 years later.

For your home karaoke use off of a home theater receiver, that will do nicely. If you want to get that "live music" sound, though, you are going to have to invest in a PA system for your karoake. You could pull off a decent home PA system for about $600 (there are several old posts about home PA setups, just do a search).

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C Mc
KJ, FL

From what I have seen, most RECEIVERs are are rated at most 150 watts per channel maximum. Most of the receivers have 5.1 channel or 7.1 channel (some with 6.1) and each wattage is driven to an each channel. As you may know watt = volt*current. Most of the speaker blow up occurs not because of high voltage spike, mostly it's due to high current spike. Given that, make sure your speakers are capable of handling the high current, as most professional speakers do. Make sure you match up impedance on the speakers with the receiver. Typical receiver will drive 8 ohms load but may not handle lower ohmage like 4 ohms or 2 ohms.

Most of the professional setups will use AMPLIFIERs rather than receivers. Some of these amps will deliver up to several thousand watts per channel and able to deliver high current output throughout the frequency range. Many amps are two channel that can be bridged to provide twice the wattage to single channel. Many of the professional amps will drive range of impedance, from 2 to 8 ohms.

It's difficult for receivers to deliver high current to all the channels at once due to the power supply design. So, that's one of the reasons why professionals use amplifiers since they can keep up with the current demands required by the equipment.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Primarily for what purpose did you buy it for ?  That is a Home Theatre DTS surround receiver. That is what it's designed to be used as.

I don't understand why you'd wish to run a home entertainment DTS surround receiver into any of the above "PA" speakers you mentioned. For home entertainment system purposes, depending on your music style listening preferences, and features YOU find appealing, (even your room size and set up come into play) try to listen to the Klipsch rf series (rf 3's perhaps), PSB Image 4T's, Mirage FRx 7's, Energy EXL:26, or Axiom M22 speakers. Different purpose speakers, different dispersion than those you mentioned. You'll be much happier with the result of your sound too with hifi speakers. These aren't too costly either.  IMHO these are really nice sounding speakers for a medium or medium/small room that sounded excellent thru both Onkyo, and Denon DTS receivers of comparable wattage per channel (about 110 watts). You'll likely have a tougher time finding a few of these makes today, yet they are recommended by many discerning listeners, and I personally liked the sound of these speakers. Naturally certain speakers have a flatter response than others. Since the receiver you have is a home entertainment type DTS surround receiver, I'm providing info on home audio hifi type speakers that sound nice hooked up to a DTS receiver. I'm matching "apples with apples". I doubt you really want to hear what that receiver is capable of sounding like thru "PA" speakers.

If you wish to sing into something, get either an integrated PA system, or powered mixer along with the above type PA speakers that you mentioned in your initial post. Speakers that are designed to handle a live human voice, or live application. Home audio is a different animal all together. PA speaker cabs are designed to fill rooms with sound volume. They usually lack the response you might listen for in a home audio speaker. Club PA type speakers are designed more for power handling (often  having different driver configurations) and won't (in most cases) offer you the sound quality of decent home "hifi" audio speakers designed for a different purpose.

I tried mixing and matching different speakers on my Denon system, and ran into noticeable "voicing" problems.  This stuff can be fun, and it can get intricate too depending on your own level of sensitivity. I'm pretty picky with my home system where speaker placement, voicing, (synchronous sound compatible with the voices in my head, and ringing in my ears) all must be taken into consideration.  :dontknow:

nguye324,

The simple interpretation of Steven Kaplan's answer above is that the home theater receiver you have is a totally differant animal than the PA speakers you listed. A home theater receiver can't drive PA speakers, and if you force it to by buying various adapters, etc. you are either going to fry the receiver or blow the speakers.

Home theater components are not compatable with PA system components. If you want to stick with your home theater receiver, you have to buy home theater speakers to go with them (the kind you would find at Best Buy/Circuit City, etc.). If you want to have PA speakers, you have to get a PA amp/mixer/combo to drive those speakers (the kind you would find at Sam Ash, Guitar Center, etc.).

For your own home use, there would be nothing wrong with karaoke running through your home reciever. If you want that "live sound" feel to it, like you hear at karoake bars, you need to go the PA route (PA speakers, amp, mixer, etc.).

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C Mc
KJ, FL

OH WOW! I just learned something I did not know.

In other words if I bought a mackie mixer. It's actually a mixer/amp/reciever  in one?? so I can hook my pa speakers directly to my mackie without needing an reciever/amplifier?

I bought a mackie at the guitar center for hm.. $299, but it doesn't
have the echo /delay feature. When I sing, the vocal sounds kinda  dull and dead.

Maybe I got the wrong mixer?

for karaoke, I do not  need  a mixer with many channels. Am I correct?
I only need one channel to hook up my cdg/dvd player to and hoook up my
microphone and sing. I guess I need a mixer with features to help to make the
vocal sounds better?

Any suggestion?

Looks like you bought the 1202 mixer.  This one is a great little board, but does not have it's own effects.  You could either return it & get maybe the DFX12 or you would need to get an external effects processor for the 1202 (this would ultimately give you the best sound overall for effects).

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There are just plain mixers and there are mixing-amps. Mackie makes both, but it sounds like you bought just a mixing unit. Again, you DO NOT want to hook up your Mackie mixer (a commercial PA component) to your home theater reciever (a consumer component) as they are not made to be compatable and one or the other (or your speakers) may fry.

If you buy the Makie mixer, there are a few ways to go. The cheaper of the two ways would be to purchace a PA amp and two PA speakers. Going the Beringer route you can accomplish this for around $400-500 for the amp and speakers.

The second way to go would be to jsut purchase powered PA speakers to go with the mixer. These are PA speakers that already have amps in the speakers themselves. This usually sounds a bit better since the amp specifications are geared especially for the speaker they are in. The cheapest way to go would again be the Beringer route for about $600 for the two speakers.

I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO HOOK UP YOUR MACKIE MIXER TO YOUR HOME THEATER RECEIVER.

I know it technically works, but you are sending a consumer-grade signal through a commercial-grade product. This is like putting regular fuel into a Lamberghini. Of course it will make the car run, but it is going to kill the high-performance engine!!

Now, if you want to, there are plenty of companies that make consumer-grade mixers that are supposed to be hooked up to your home theater receiver. VocoPro immediately comes to mind.

If all you really want to do is hook up your mics and sing karaoke through your home-theater receiver, you can do this with many of the karoake players on the market. The JVC/RSQ 303/333 has mic insets on the front of the player. They are 1/4" but you can buy an adapter if your mic cables have XLR inputs.

It sounds to me, though, that you already have this Yamaha home theater reciever and already have a karoake player and a way to hook up your mic and just want some new speakers. If that is the case, go to your local Best Buy/Circuit City and look at their home theater speakers. Anything that sounds good to you will do the job nicely for home karoake without you having to spend a ton of $$$. Just know that you could have a semi-professional PA system for your home karoake for around $700 that would sound more like the live sound of a club karoake show.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

lonman,

in terms of vocal sound quality, the  external effects processor will sound
better than the built in effects in the DFX12????

How much does one of those external effect processor cost?
Do mackie make them?
What are some of the models you would suggest?
And where can I buy them?

Topherm,
Thank you for the advice. I won't hook up my mackie mixer into my
home theather system I'm a bit picky when it comes to sound quality.
I think i'm willing to spend another grant to get the semi-professional PA karaoke system and just  use the  the home theather sytem for watching movies and listening to music.

Beringer makes speakers too? I only find a few brands at the guitar center.
Mackie, JBL , yamaha.

Are there any other places besides the guitar center I can buy those semi-professional audio stuff from?

Check out Sam Ash, zZounds, and Musician's Friend, all of which have great online stores and lots of retail outlets. The effects on the mixer should be good enough for your use, I'd check it out before you go buy an external unit. If you do end up wanting a digital unit, however, check out the Alesis Midiverb, which is pretty much the industry standard for affordable external vocal effects.

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem. ... GroupCode=

As far as the speakers, the Beringer are the best mix of low cost and quality. If you want to jump up to really great sounding speakers, Mackie, Yamaha, and JBL all make great speakers. I'd shy away from the Mackie passive (unpowered) speakers, not because they are low quality but because they are a bit overpriced. The Mackie SRM450 is about as good as it gets for small powered speakers. The JBL Eons are great powered speakers as well. If you are looking to buy an external PA amp and add passive speakers, I would recommend the Yamaha S115Vs, which is what I run in my system.

For your home use, also check out the PA packages that all of these online stores have. They each come with speakers and a mixing amp unit and all of the wires and are usually portable and very affordable. You can hook the Mackie mixer up between the mixing amp and the speakers so that it overrides the mixer portion of the mixing amp and then you have all of your Mackie quality and effects available.

http://www.samash.com/catalog/search.as ... pagesize=0

Lots of options!! Just gotta figure out which one is for you. The great thing about PA equipment is that it is always upgradable if you want to start off inexpensively and work your way up!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL