Karaoke Forums

It seems to me that on the discussion of business expense, the one unspoken money sucking expenditure is those darn song books. As my library expanded I kept updating my "new music" index at the front of the book. Around October the new music index was bigger than the music index so I went and redid my books.

Twelve books, almost 400 pages between sort by artist/sort by music. After concluding that the books had grown too darn big, and not wanting to run out and invest in 3" D ring binders at $11 a pop, I changed the format of my books and went with a smaller font. I've been in several locations where they seemed to have gone with an 8 point font. Well the good news is I cut out almost 100 pages from each book. Of course multiply that times twelve that is 1,200 pages and that is saving some money.

Well the debut of the new books have NOT been well received by my regulars. The bottom line to this is what are people doing for books. I'm thinking about going to a computerized system. I have written my own software for managing my library in MS Access, and could write software to manage song selection. I'm just starting to think that long term, it will cost less money and if I go with a couple of dirt cheap laptops (thinking even about going to a PC recyling store to get used laptops for even less - horsepower is NOT an issue for managing the code) than updating the books - and when new music is added - whoop, there it is. I know of one area host that is complete computer based on their song selection.

A long post - should probably go to bed - anyway - I'm very interested in hearing what folks are doing for books.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Going to a two column format will cut your book size (and printing costs) in half!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

yep, I have my song pages on my website in .pdf format. they look very good!

I also have my books on my site that you can check out. Another thing you may consider (if you aren't already) is eliminate the duplicate songs. You may find this will cut your books down considerably. I use an 11 point font on mine but with a very tight cell - which will automatically grow with longer song titles. Cell space will take up more than you think.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you're printing your books at a printers consider doing it yourself. For what some people pay for a single printing of their books you can buy an older HP LaserJet 4si/5si that has a duplexer and a low page count.

Considering that these printers are rated at 50,000 pages a month or higher they will easily handle the volume. Add in paper that's prepunched for 3 ring binders (maginally more expensive at your office supply store) and it starts getting pretty cheap for a reprint.

Even if you bind your books with plastic binder the binding machine (that binds and cuts the paper for binding) will pay for iteself in 2 reprints. Yes, it takes time, but 3 ring binders will take a couple hours with binders taking a little longer because you'll have to cut the pages and bind them (figure half an afternoon or so).

BTW, I find 5si's w/ duplexers, a low page count, and a years warranty for about $500-$750.

The first print will be about $1000 and after that it's paper and toner (under $200 for 50,000 pages).

Keep in mind I'm basing this on feedback from a local club with over 31,000 songs that spends about $1200 every time they print. Their books are about 450 pages for artist and another 450 by song title.

We have six large 3 ring binders that hold our books. The front is sorted by Artist ..... flip the book over..... and you've got all songs by Title. Each page is individual ... but we put two back to back ... and place them in plastic protectors. The whole catalog.... @ 6000 songs (and probably more, its grown quite a bit.... reprinting is my JOB of the week this week--ugh!), appears in PDF format on our website.... and when printed .... is approx. 200 pages x 6 catalogs = 1200 one sided sheets. We use a 3 column format, Artist-Title-Catolog # -or- Title-Artist-Catalog # .... and print in Ariel 11. Tight.. but readable! Costs us about $180.00 to print them and we redo them in January ... and usually in June.

For us, Discs are the real "kick in the pants" as far as "monthly/yearly expenditure". And of course, equipment replacement and upkeep is brutal... to say the least.


Cindy

Things must be a lot more expensive in Alaska. We use Staples to print our books. We print 17 Title, 17 Artist, and 2 Disc books over 19,000 entries in Tahoma 8 and put 15 of Title and Atrist into 60 duotangs (we have to split them A-L and L-Z). Cost is around $300Cdn. Much cheaper than doing it ourselves plus it takes Staples about 4 hours or so.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

The binders you can find for quite a bit less than 11$ a pop. A box of 100 sleeves is maybe 10$. For the actual printing--I'd make a master on the computer, print it and then for long term printing savings ---I'd look at purchasing a used copier machine that does double-sided: a 22-25 copy per minute machine--like a Ricoh or Savin. You can get a nice one used on clearance for probaly 300-400$. It will last you years. And given that you wont be doing HUGE amounts of printing it wont cost that much in toner or wear or tear/parts. Plus youll have the added benefit of being able to print your own flyers/showbills etc. You might even luck into one that can be connected to your puter and use it as a printer! I have an old Ricoh and do all my book updates and inserts on it. Saves A LOAD OF TIME AND MONEY from having to go to KINKOS. Then do all the page stuffing on the books yourself and there ya go.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

As for printing, I'd get a job in an office where they don't mind if you "work" late. If you can also manage to spend your day surfing this forum, it's an added bonus.

Actually.... I do use my "work" for some printing (slips, flyers, etc...) But... I buy the reams of paper .... and pay the "discount" price for faculty (non-educational/personal printing discount).

Actually am trying to write a grant for using Karaoke as a therapy tool for those with communication problems..... but, that will take some time to complete and find a funding source.

However, the catalogs are just way too big & time consumptive to do at work... so we use a printing service. We DO stuff the protective sleeves ourselves, tho.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

ShotgunCC--Drop me an email about this grant project you're working on. I work in education too, and I am always amazed at how students that I can't get to say "peep" in the classroom will get up in front of a much larger crowd and sing. I think you're on to something.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

It reads to me that people are not updating books as frequently as I am - something I need to step back and consider. Appreciate the input.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Not sure what you mean by "updating". If you mean a reprint of the entire book, I do mine about once per year. If you mean the new section I redo my entire new section every time I buy new discs. I don't just add another page to the front, I redo the entire new section incorporating the new discs with the "old" new discs.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Same here, I update my Lastest Additions section 3x a year and on the 4th, I redo the whole book.

Oh How I Wish !!!

I maintain & print my books with KJPro. Oh how I wish someone would write a "KJPro Conversion For Dummies" book.

How nice it would be to convert to Access or Excel or whatever and print they way I want to. I've read several posts over the years by Access gurus so I think it can be done. I just wish someone would give SIMPLIFIED instructions or make an Access template to export to.

Just dreamin'

I've seen KJ Pro and sure seems to be living on a MS Access shell, but that may have been the intent, or the knowledge level of the person or people who did the UI design...

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

One thing I did recently was to reprint my book as 2 sided ( one page with printing on both sides) It cuts the paper and thickness in half. I also went to a NO plastic page protector and NO BINDER. I created a nice glossy cover page and had STAPLES "bind" the pages with a clear platic cover in front and a solid colored cover in back . total to bindn each book about $2. The books are noticeably THINNER than some of the older books and many people assume that they do not have the same songs in them. My regulars like the way they look and feel ( not to heavy )
The problem will be with HOW WELL THEY WEAR AND TEAR without any protectors on them . So far about 3 months and all books are holding up well.

I did similar steps on my reprint. I went double sided on the printing and no clear protectors. Good to hear that after three months they are holding up, that was one of my biggest concerns.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Wow... what's your secret? Our books, as they are now, get beer spilled on them... pages taken out (always makes me gasp when someone brings a catalog page to the desk and says; "can I sing this next"?) and basically, I find that I have to use a damp cloth on the protective sleeves at least monthly. One good beer spill... and you could be out several sheets, I'd think???

I am sure printing two-sided may cut down on the size of the print job... but unless you are using a really high quality bond of paper.... I would think you'd have shadowing ... and with the dimly lit rooms that most of us are in, I don't think I'd take the risk. But....... if you've found it works for you, and you feel the books still looks good & meet the needs of your singers, and it saves ya a few bucks... I think its great!

Guess I am just a bit too scared to give it a try.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Didn't have any shadowing on the double sided print, and it saved me 3 cents per page in the process, while, as noted cutting the books in half (or about 1/3 with sheet protectors).

My bigger issue was going to an 8 point font was a mistake - guess I'll have to wait for some beer spillage to go again and back to 10 point.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!