Karaoke Forums

Is bugging our venue about paying their fees...The management want us to "help" with it , I told them "I dont think so" !! I'm responsible for keeping myself legal you need to keep you legal...I told him if I was to help my prices would go up. I told them that even if you have a radio, satelite tv, jukebox (which he has all of) you still gotta pay them...I am right right ? I thought I researched this years ago when we first started our business but dont quite remember it word for word.  Im so pi$$ed right now over this BS. Id hate to lose a gig but dang !!  He wont be able to find a karaoke company to pay those fees for him (unless they hide it in thier fees to the bar) & honestly they wont find a karaoke company legal around here to take a stand like us either b/c they'd be scared to say anything about their library being illegal to start with. Thanks for letting me vent !

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Kelley
Star Sounds Karaoke & Mobile Recording Studio


[shadow=black][scroll]You have to respect your audience. Without them, you're essentially standing alone, singing to yourself....KD Lang[/scroll][/shadow]

This year my Holoween costume is a BMI Shirt and BMI Hat, and of course vampire fangs.

Seriously the rates for Karaoke are a minor part of the BMI fees, I cant find the ascap rate breakdown online. A large bar with karaoke 5 nights a week and a capacity of 200 would only pay $100 a year for karaoke. A smaller bar with only 100 capacity and 1 night a week karaoke only pays $25 for karaoke per year..

THe main fees are from the radio, live music acts and allowing dancing. The above two example bars if they had radio, tv, live music and dancing and occasional cover charges would be paying about $10 per person occupancy compared to the maximum of $.50 for just the karaoke. ($.25 if once a week).

Ask your bar if they would be giving up radio, tv and dancing. THen if they want to be petty about the BMI/Ascap fees that are additional because of the karaoke being part of the entertainment then you have a much stronger case, and they will realize that they can't demand too much from you.

If they insist on being petty and the fees for BMI have not been paid, remind the customers that dancing is not allowed because the $1.60 fee per person per year to BMI has not been paid. THat will make the $.25-$50 for karaoke seem trivial.

However I know a KJ that a lot of the customers did like who got fired because he would not pay the fees, but I have heard rumors that the bar owner could not get along with people and that was the main reason he left the fees were the excuse.

Yep not your responsibility.  If he insists, lose the gig!  Wonder if he's paying for any of the other ASCAP requirements either?

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

No, this fee is not your responsibility.  On the other hand I don't think it is the bar owners responsibility either.
Karaoke is not a public performance.  Karaoke is something you do not something you listen to.  People are waiting their turn to practice, not perform.  The music is arbitrary.  The songwriter is entitle to the net revenue his work generated at the perfromance.  Since his music may or may not be used on any given night that net revenue is nothing.  ASCAP, BMI, SEASAC are only entitled to collect what the songwriter is entitled to.  Tell ASCAP to kiss off.

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Okay, who took my pants?

They are performing, not practicing, & even so, the ones that aren't singing aren't 'practicing' they are listening.  Gees, what excuses some will try to come up with.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Kelley, stand your ground. Those fees are for the venue and are not your repsonsibility. If the bar wants entertainment to draw bigger crowds then they need to belly up and pay the fee. The bar owner is trying to get you to pick up part of the tab because he is a cheap SOB.

I would tell him that if you DO participate in paying the fee, you also want a share of the profits that come from having karaoke there. That's only fair RIGHT?  I mean the next thing the owner will asking you to pay the license fees to the state for selling liquor because the customers drink on karaoke nights! ......

Betcha if you use this tact, he or she will back away quickly and pay the fees and that will be the last you hear about it.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Another approach would be to demand for a contract in writing for the full year of exclusive karaoke rights  at the bar that you paid the fee for.

That might scare them away from the concept.

May scare them away from karaoke altogether as well.  One of my clubs a couple years back shut karaoke down when ASCAP came in.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If anybody else is dealing with this matter as a KJ or bar owner please PM me. If your bar is paying ASCAP or RIAA extra for karaoke please PM me.

Be prepared to establish land line contact and provide the local ABC TV affilliate in your area..

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

RIAAA is suing those that stream music 24/7 for every nickle they can get... Karaoke in most bars is 4 hours a week... 4 hours a week people!!!!!!!!

A bar pays an annual fee and 4 hours on fri nights substantiates an additional fee in addition to and commensurate with the jukebox fee? Lets get reasonable and real people They are bleeding and killing our industry... It is time we united ....

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

klkllkklklklkl

 They are practicing performing.  It's not about the music, it's about the performance.  No one is listening.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Regardless it's still being played in a public venue.  Half the time no one is listening to the jukebox or the tv either or the background music many clubs play, but it's still being played.  Doesn't matter who is  & isn't listening.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

But it is being played expressly for purposes of critique and improvement of a skill in no way related to the copyrighted material.  This is specifically covered under fair use.  Besides which, you can't copyright a chord sequence and there is no melody line in the karaoke version.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Yeah, ok!  

Regardles of what you think, it is being played & performed in a public venue.  It's not of educational value, you have even admitted that you think all singers pretty much suck (or nothing but drunks) or something to that effect at one point or another so how can they be honestly practicing for critique?  They don't care how they sound at your venue remember, they are there to get drunk & party, no education value?
It's no different than a cover band playing, maybe they are just there to hone their skills for the big time?  Get a clue!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

No matter who is singing or trying to sing or 'practicing' to sing, the fact is that the MUSIC is being played by the KJ who is (presumably) making a profit by doing so and in turn the bar owner is enhancing his business by having karaoke.  Now, don't you think it is only fair that the artist who creates the music and lyrics (and therefore owns the rights to the public performance of his work) should be compensated when others are making money from his work? Or would you prefer a world full of free-loaders?

AMEN!


sw00000p

I saw how recently the music publishers insisted a video of a baby dancing to a popular song was banned from youtube because the royalties were not paid (it was a prince song and his publishers sued).

It was an under 1 minute clip and the song was barely recognizable. (but the dancing baby was cute).

As the laws are the publisher had the rights to demand it be removed or paid for as a licensed use. Obviouslly silly but the law is on the side of the songwriter's copyright to a irational extent.

is it  not true  that the owners of  Youtube make an awful  lot of  money from their site?  And if  they make that grandiose sum because  people  are getting entertainment  from  an entertainer's work, then surely  the   entertainer should receive some compensation for their contribution to the website  owner's  income?

Bar   owners have karaoke  because they  make more money from it (else why would they bother?).   Surely  a  KJ wouldn't expect to receive no payment for their contribution to the bar's profit.  That has been well documented on this forum.  Then tell me why you would not expect the creator of the work which is the  source of the income not to be compensated.