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Tthis is probably not the forum to start this thread but I have to vent and would like to do it it with friends. They are starting to hang privates and low ranking militaty personael for prisoner abuse in distant lands that doesnt have any rules at all. Years ago while on a flag ship for six yrears one of our division duties was brig duty when the marine detachment was assigned to to off-ship assignments. Al prisoners was subjected to harrassment one example ...When transporting to the chow hall thay would have to shout SIR REQUEST PERMISSION TO ENTER THE HATCH SIR. One time when on brig duty I was escorting a sailotr to mess, his only infraction was he was 1 hour late reperting aboard ship. I was escorting him to chow and next thing I knew I had a marine officer in my face asking me why I wasnt treating a prisoner like they should be.. Next thing  knew I had him against the wall teeling him if you want to abuse prisoners then you do it do not tell me how to deal with prisoners I have spent more time on shore patrol than you ever will. He wrote me up. That weekend as per uaual marine guards had prisoners on the fantail and would make them run in circles in the hot sun until they passed out. I puffed out and with all of my 150 pounds started hollering Let me tell you f** bastards this this practice is gonna cease right now..Next thing I knew the old man (captain of the ship was standing there ) he said you are right sailor!! It was piped over the 1 mc will the senior officer of the marine detachment please report to the quarter deck.. Needless to say I didnt lose a stripe at that captains mast.

Now I dont know how I would conduct myself in a prison over there but my question is why they arew hanging privates when they should be hanging the officers in charge and the cia agents? Have we sunk that low? A commander-in chief like John F Kennedy must be rollng over and weeping as all the other vets in this country is doing. I dont condone thje practises but if that was the plan of the day then hang the ones giving the orders.

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im totally against the war and what they are doing... i frequently g to oprotests with me boyfriend and mamn grrr your post got me all fired up

You never heard the phrase "$h1t rolls downhill".  The problem in the handling of prisoners is that the personnel doing it haven't been properly trained to do it.  Being a retired MP in Canada, it is obvious these people have no clue of what they are doing.  Having said this, it is the fault of the senior personnel both NonComs and Officers.  Here in Canada, at least when I was in, the prisoner handling course (equivilent of a penitentary guard) was about six months long.  The average soldier is trained in short term prisoner handling until they turn them over to the proper authority, normally a Military Police unit.  The problem in Iraq were too many prisoners, too many poorly trained reserve units (especially Military Police), and worst of all a poor chain of command.  Quite frankly the corroltion forces weren't prepared for the number of prisoners.  No discipline = chaos.

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Just a couple points...

1) You are right, this is not the place for this discussion.  This is a karaoke board not a poli BB.

2) Tim, the soldiers being prosecuted for this abuse WERE in a mp unit.

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If you read what I wrote you will see I wrote RESERVE Military Police unit which was very poorly trained, not Regular Force.  Those charged to the best of my knowledge were all Reserve not regular Force.  There is a difference between professionals and Weekend Warriors.  Just as there is a big difference between a professional KJ and a KJ who plays for beer.

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sad situation, hard to run a war with all the rules

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