Karaoke Forums

I haven't heard that one before. I take pride in being a KJ in providing the best possible experience, period. I don't loose sleep over it, but when someone complains about the sound system I consider my options and check/tweak accordingly. I have said here since coming on board that I am utterly convinced that anyone can be made to sound at least moderately good in a studio setting with enough back tracking, enhancement, etc. etc. etc.

Ashlee Simpson as Exhibit A in my theory.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

I have heard this alot and have seen it in action... just as a good singer avoids singing on a crappy system, a bad singer or newbie are intimidated by a superior sound system with a person that knows how to adjust sound (very important factor)... the reasoning is that on a superior system a singer may sound better than they are but also a bad singer's flaws (I am being nice) are magnified... no matter how good of a singer you are, on a BAD system(or system where the KJ has no clue) it is going to sound awful. bad singers, or so-so singers, feel more comfortable on a average system because the playing field is more even- everyone is pushed towards the middle of the pack whereas on a good system the better singers will be taken to another level. don't get me wrong, even bad singers, or average singers, can sound great on a system ran by someone who knows what they are doing but, by the same token, on a great system a bad singer can HEAR the flaws much more evident and many people do not like that kind of scrutiny... I know alot of places I would LOVE to go to more but just cannot bring myself to sing on bad systems or systems ran by push button jocks, as a consumer I simply make the choice to go to places that meet minimal criteria when I go out... just a thought- tig

Thanks for all the input everyone!
These guys were regular singers. I needed to find out if I was going nuts/or missing out on something...Yes, I am the same way. We will avoid most places because of their sound and compromise on a decent sounding place that have hard to find songs that we like to sing.
When I sing I like it when I can get into the song and lose track of everything else-instead of just singing along with music(I don't know how to explain it- "in the zone" I guess). So we try to do the same for our customers.
-I wouldn't change everything for a couple people in a bar with opinions possibly distorted by alcohol. If I can't run with good sound, I don't want to do it.....
-I also agree with Outdoor places. Good sound keeps great singers great, bad singers better and better for those who just came to listen and hang out.
Thanks for the help guys!
JamminJimmy

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Woo-Hoo!!!

Sorry Tig, we were typing at the same time, and you won....
-With people that may be intimidated on good sound, is that something where you can ride the music a little higher to disguise the voice a tad? Or anything like that-effects on the monitor, etc....?
thanks!

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Woo-Hoo!!!

For the "bad" singer.... generally ya wanna try to let the music be a bit louder than "typical" ... but not so that you can't hear them ... and then adjust either the high or low end of their voice (the part that seems to be most pronounced and emphasizes their weakness). Adjust those two things and usually you can get a "bad" singer to a "passable" level and thru a song. At least.. that's worked for us.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

yep, that's me... I let the music be louder!

When I read the original post in this thread a couple things immediately leaped to mind, and most of them have nothing to do with the singers.

That in mind, I ask the following questions.

1. How much singing do YOU, as host do? You mention that you have 7 years experience singing and 1 as a host. I've seen several shows hosted by people who seem to think that their show is a place to showcase THEIR talents instead of creating a fun. This leads to "regular" singers feeling intimidated and unwilling to sing which leads to the death of a show.

2. Is your sound system REALLY all that great or does it just sound great to you and the way you like it when you sing? Again, we've all seen hosts who can't run their sound to save their lives, yet none of them would come out and say, "My sound sucks." We all think our setup sounds great.

3. What's your music selection like? Other than an unfair rotation, that is probably complaint number two of most karaoke singers.

4. You mention your "regulars." I've found that most karaoke shows have a core of followers that are loyal as hell. These are NOT the people you need to be talking to. Talk to the people who you have seen once or twice before and see what they think. This is the kind of stuff that turns casual karaoke fans into die hards. I once heard that if you have 10 die hards who will follow your show anywhere, anytime you can play wherever you want at whatever price you want. I believe that's a true statement.

5. Rotation? Yah, here's that ol' can of worms again. Do you run a fair rotation or do your "regulars" get special favors?

6. How many other karaoke operators are in your immediate area? If there are several, what are you doing to make your show different/better/stand out? ALL karaoke shows have a host, a microphone and some loudspeakers. What else are you giving the people who come to your shows? If your show is across the street from my show, what's gonna make people go to your show instead of mine?

Finally, what are YOU doing to promote your shows? You mention that the bars didn't do much advertising. Get used to it.

You also mention that they didn't give karaoke time to grow. Are you doing anything to help share the pain with them, or are you just chugging along at full price, damn the torpedoes? Show that you are willing to suck up a little bit of the loss early on and they will most like become long term customers once the show catches on.

I've landed several shows by offering the venue a no lose deal. We sit down and figure the average ring for whatever night (I'm assuming these are weeknight shows you're losing) you are going to be there. Get a multi week deal, 4-6 weeks, where you will only get paid if they exceed that average ring. If they do, then you ask for a percentage of the over, I usually shoot for 75%, but will settle for 55. Will you work some nights for free? Sure. But IN THE LONG RUN, if your show is as good as you claim it is you will come out ahead because these will develop into regular shows at FULL PRICE for you.

GOOD LUCK!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

Sorry, long post

I didn't mean to sound like I have the best show in the west. I'm sorry if I sounded like I did.....

[quote]How much singing do YOU, as host do?[/quote]
- I start out first song to sound check. I will sing when there are less than 6 in the rotation, but only to get the energy up and counter against too many slow sleepy ballads. I myself can sing on the other nights of the week at other places and realize these people are paying the light bill.......

[quote]Is your sound system REALLY all that great[/quote]
-I think it is(but this set up is what I listen to most of the time)..... I have had many compliments on our sound(I know a lot of KJ's also do) but this was one of the reasons for my original question. We have many, many bars in this area that don't eq or know how to eq, rely on cheaper equipment(home stereo reciever as an amp, sub par speakers, etc...). These bars have the crowds, so that is why I even pondered the "sound being too good" theory....

[quote]What's your music selection like?[/quote]
-I would say somewhere between 4500-5000 songs. We have the Pioneer Laserdisc set 1-50 and 20+ others and then around 230 CDGs. Always buying more, of course.....
[quote]most karaoke shows have a core of followers that are loyal as hell. These are NOT the people you need to be talking to.[/quote]
-I try to talk to everybody.....

[quote]Do you run a fair rotation or do your "regulars" get special favors?[/quote]
-Nobody gets special favors. I will not p@$# 10 people off to make one person happy. We have had regulars come in late, so the show(which runs from 9 to 1) goes until closing time(2 am on our own time). Everybody sings, of course, I just mean that when we have people to sing we'll go over our time....
[quote]How many other karaoke operators are in your immediate area?[/quote]
-We have several..... I am in the Boise, Id area and we are saturated(just like the rest of the country).....
[quote]what are you doing to make your show different/better/stand out?[/quote]
-Well, looking around, I thought good sound was going to do it..... I'm learning...... Anyhoo, our last gig was a sports bar, so we had huge HDTV's for lyrics, wireless mics(you could stroll around the room or sit at your table or do whatever you wanted to.). Our rotation was quick with one person passing the Mic off to the next.

[quote]Finally, what are YOU doing to promote your shows?[/quote]
-We had our trailer out in front of the bar. They have a digital marquee also. They didn't want to advertise more than that.

[quote] Are you doing anything to help share the pain with them, or are you just chugging along at full price[/quote]
-Actually this is where we were the most helpful. We really like the bar(close to home, we left our stuff there, good people to work with....). We originally started out charging half price for the first 4 weeks(I thought this was a lot, but I learned later that some will do reduced price for a lot longer. I'm learning....). Anyhoo, things weren't taking off very fast, so every night we sat down with the owner and decided a fair price compared to the crowd. By doing this, we were originally going to end it in November, but held on until January.

In a nutshell a lot of things were working against us-some were:
-it was a new/refurbished establishment
-It was a sports bar/resturaunt and also high drink prices
-the smoking law sucks for our customers
-no/little advertising
-crappy service by their waitstaff
-saturated karaoke market
-large number of water drinkers(I do like the idea of selling coupons for drinks at the door....- I think Lonman's idea??? Its a good one...)
-Possibly our inexperience on how to get around some of these issues.....

These aren't complaints, just some background that I didn't add at the beginning....
Although it sucks to lose this gig, we have learned a lot from it and have more experience for the next one!
thanks,
JamminJimmy!

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Woo-Hoo!!!

I think this is a bunch of BS and have never heard anyone complain of a system sounding TOO good for business. Now, I have heard the opposite! If you lost a gig is was because of something else, you were given a smoke screen for the real reason.

Well, this topic appears to be dun fer....  Just wanted to say thanks to all for input on what seemed to be a unique perspective... thanks!  Jimmy!

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Woo-Hoo!!!

Hmm Jimmy I didn't read the whole thread but if I had to guess, I'd say that the vocal sound that you like to use is really clear with not too much echo in there. People in the crowd hear bad voices "too well" and a domino effect to scare people off is ready. If this is the case with sound, I suggest that you bring down lead vocals just a bit and instead drive it up in monitor. That way the singer hears it and not audience. Also, this method will work well for both bad and good singers and it will work best in a setup with a compressor limiter.

I really don't know if this is your case but at least it might be someone else's

jee