Karaoke Forums

Ok, I just started a new bar in my town, and the owner was asking me about ACAP and BMI who even though she has only been in business 1.5 months, are already beating her door down trying to get her to pay up.
They want $500.00 annually, although; I have talked to a few bar owners who do pay and they got them down to $275.00 or somewhere around there.

My question is this, Do not SC, CB, THM, Legends, MM, PHM, etc pay for the right to reproduce the song? And then turn around and add that cost to the price of the CD-G's we are purchasing. If so, then how are they charging the bars for something the CD-G Manufactuers and ourselves have already paid for? I can understand live bands, and the jukebox, but not Karaoke too.

How can they get us coming and going, and how can this be legal?

Please respond as I am confused as hell.

I've been through this multiple times myself. They do certainly get you coming and going. The venue is responsible for paying the fees to BMI and ASCAP. I'll give you the short version. Basically SC, PHM, ect. all pay roayties to reproduce, not for public performance. The venue is responisble for the public performace fees. They are both "non-profit" groups. They collect money and distribute it to the artists. It's kinda like a retirement plan for musicians. If they do not pay they can and will certainly be sued. If you think about the fees listed as a daily expense to running the business it is actually very small. If I were you I would advise the owner to pay up. I contacted BMI myself to see if I could get lisensed so my bars would not have to and they told me they do not provide licensing for mobile DJ's or KJ's. If you need more information do not hesitate to contact them. They are not quite as evil as the RIAA.

ascap and bmi and seatac are concerned with the artist's rights.

There are several avenues here.

* The reproduciton of the music: This is covered (hopefully) by the manufacturers.
* The reproduction of the lyrics: again, by the manufacturers... although sometimes you'll see a song out that has the music but NOT the lyrics. pocket songs was famous for this with Disney songs!
and
* the PLAYING of an artist's copyrighted material. Whether it is original music or a reproduction or cover.

THe latter is what concerns you and I.

The fees (license) that these guys want applies to live bands as well. JUST because it's karaoke doesn't mean that the fears of ASCAP and BMI and SEASAC are suddenly alerted.

Chances are, the bar is being approached BECAUSE it's brand new, and they probably have a jukebox or a radio/stereo that plays music.

Tell the bar to go ahead and pay it, but I would do the negotiation tactic first. Ask for proof that other neighborhood bars are also paying for their fair usage rights.

$500.00 anually is NOTHING in the greater scheme of things. That's a bit more than a dollar thirty a day for 365 days a year! Even at 50 weeks a year (say giving holidays or special events a break) that's only $10 a week! They might also take monthly payments on a fledgeling bar as capital is very short initially for such as those.

There are multiple licensing mecanisms in play here:

The karaoke companies that make the tracks request a permissive license to sync the words and music together. Another licensing fee is associated with the writing of the lyrics/music to a medium. The fees associated with the fees typically are paid back to the songwriter.

There is a seperate fee associated with the playing of this music in a public venue. Typically there are two licenses - one for jukeboxes and other mechanical playing mechanisms that are usually licensed by the company that provides the jukebox and another for live music which karaoke usually falls into.

Because there are seperate groups that deal with the licensing fees associated with playing songs you have to pay multiple entities the licensing because different songs allow them to regulate the licensing for those songs.

The fees are a valid expense but I'd talk with them. They can be pretty aggressive but seem to be less sue-happy than the RIAA (as Knightshow mentioned).

FYI, we had a bar shut down in Alaska because of licensing issues (among other things). They refused to pay the licensing fees and they shut the bar down after a couple weeks. Doesn't happen everywhere but it occasionally happens when someone gets a little crazy....