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Okay well I actually realized that my RSQ 10" speakers can't push decent BASS if their lives depended on it. They're very good at high and mid-range but when you try and play Sir Mixalot's "Baby got Back" you'll know right away that the RSQ's are just not going to be there for you.

Anyway, I was shopping around and based on my low powered amp (180 watts / channel) I can't really fix the bass by adding larger/higher wattage speakers, so my only alternative is a powered subwoofer.

I found the following 3 items, each under $400 (thank god! - Guitar Center's lowest priced one is a Dual 12" system for $629)

Anyway I would like feedback on which of the following 3 powered subwoofers would be better for my system.

My amp puts out 180 watts per channel. I would plug the powered subwoofer into the Pre-Amp out jack.

My speakers are 10" RSQ 350 Watts (peak) 175 watts RMS

I am not quite sure how the Hz ratings work. Isn't it that the lower the range the more bass frequencies are carried? If that's true then the cheapest one listed has the lowest Hz rating (down to 20) but it's only 120 watts total power...

I need to get something that matches my setup fairly well and can't really demo them before I buy...Any help would be extremely appreciated!!!

Subwoofer 1:
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Vocopro Sub-1500 ($329.00)
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500 Watts
15” Coated Long-throw Woofer for Accurate Long-lasting, Stable Performance
Rugged Dual-port Enclosure with Metal Grills and Carrying Handles
Highly Detailed Bass Response to 40Hz
40Hz-160Hz Adjustable Crossover for Variable Low-pass Filtering
High-level MDP and Line-level RCA Inputs/Outputs for Multiple Connection
Options
Phase Switch for Correct Speaker Phasing
Reinforced Heatsink for Optimal Power Handling and Thermal Stability

http://www.dtskaraoke.com/vosu500wa15p.html

Subwoofer 2:
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JBL PB12 Powerbase ($399.00)
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250 Watts
Low-Frequency Driver: 12" Pure-cellulose fiber cone
Inputs: Line-level (switchable to LFE) and speaker-level with gold-plated 5-way binding posts
Outputs: Speaker-level, high-pass with gold-plated 5-way binding posts
Low-Pass Frequency: Continuously variable from 50Hz - 150Hz
High-Pass Frequency: 150Hz when using speaker-level outputs
Frequency Response: 25Hz - low-pass crossover setting

http://www.dtskaraoke.com/jblspeakers.html


Subwoofer 3:
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Vocopro Sub-1200 ($249.00)
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120 Watts
12" Long-Throw woofer to reproduce low frequency's
2 Large Ports to release acoustic energy for Lower Frequency Response
Small footprint design for easy placement
Super Low Frequency to 20hz
Tight, clean, Accurate Sound and Lower Distortion

http://www.dtskaraoke.com/vocsubpowsub.html

- FutureMon

Well, you really want a minimum 15" sub for 10" mids, given the choices you opted for, as much as I HATE them, the VocoPro 15" sub. The 12" are still too small & wouldn't give a whole lot more bass than you are currently getting. Although none of these really look like they are designed for pro use, they look like they are designed more for home use.
For a little more $$ you could get a lot better through a pro sound outlet.

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For pro use, you may want to bypass adding a Vocopro sub and look into getting some 15" speaker cabs. Chances are you are going to want to upgrade to pro cabs even after you add the VocoPro sub. You probably will be happier getting Yamaha or Peavey 12" cabs as opposed to trying to add a sub to the RSQs. Check your local music supply store for good used cabs from a reputable brand or save up until you have enough for new cabs. Personally, I am holding out until I am able to get the powered Mackies. Although they only have 12" drivers they really put out good sound and suprisingly high sound pressure levels. I booked a band to do a 175 person wedding and they were using those speakers and I was amazed at their output. While setting up, the band leader advised me that he was not going to use the sub. I was surprised becuase I knew we would have over 170 people in the room. He said considering the size of the room, it was not needed. He was right.

The only issue with that is finding 15" Speakers that aren't too highly rated for my 180 watt amplifier...

The root issue is, I need a better amp before I can upgrade my speakers...So I am opting for a subwoofer to get me by for now. I spoke with several people at various pro audio shops and they all basically refused to sell me the JBL 15" speakers because they knew I'd blow them out using too low an amplifier.

- FutureMon

Don't look for speakers to "fit" the 180 watts. Yes this is quite under rated when you get into club settings. The Powered Mackies Steve were talking about push 400 watts per speaker.
You COULD get the speakers first & an amp later (but quickly). What will destroy a speaker is underpowering them - which means to get a good solid listening volume, you have turn them up much higher - sometimes when this happens with under rated amps, clipping (distortion) occurs. Distortion is what is going to kill speakers which is why they were afraid to sell you the JBL 15" speakers, it also depends on which model you were looking at, this you didn't mention.
Most sound engineers will recommend your amp push twice the average power handling of your speaker. Meaning if your speaker handles 300 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, your amp should push 600 watts into 8 ohms. You will get phenomenal sound at regular listening levels & still have a little headroom to work with.

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I was looking at the JBL EON 1500 225 Watts RMS/900 Watts Peak speakers.

- FutureMon

You could get by with the JBL EON. They do like the higher power amps but you would be fine until you could get another amp. Sounds like the sales people were trying to sell you more. If they "won't" sell it to you locally, then go online to either Musicians Friend or American Musical Supply.
You wouldn't necesarily need the subs right away if you go this way. But you would want a more powerful amp to drive them as soon as you could.

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Well the salesman actually did say he would sell them to me if I insisted, but he wanted to write something on the receipt indicating that they were being sold "as-is" since he knew I would be underpowering them...

A new amp is a ways away. I spent $459 on the one I have and still don't have any gigs yet...

- FutureMon

STAY AWAY from that store then!!!! There is not a salesman alive that truely cares whether you blow something up or not or they just aren't very reputable. That's what manufacturer warranties are for. If he is going to sell you a "NEW" product as is, there is something BIG TIME wrong. If he is selling a couple "USED" speakers, then I can understand selling them as is as most used items won't come with any kind of warranty - as a rule, some places will give a 7-30 day return on used items mainly if you do alot of business with them.
You won't blow a speaker with an underpowered amp if you are careful & don't overdrive them. ALthough this is what you tend to do to get the sound over the crowd. You just have to keep an eye & ear on the speakers, as soon as you hear ANY kind of distortion, turn it down!

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The store was Sam Ash.

- FutureMon

That surprises me. But I still wouldn't buy anything from there if they are going to sell something new as "As Is" because they "think" you may blow it out!!! Not even sure if that's legal. Again, that' what manufacturer warranties are for & if the store won't deal with you, then the manufacturer will determine if it was your fault or not.

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So I'm looking at the Vocopro Sub-1500 some more.

Turns out that the link I gave may have a typo in it. Everywhere else I find this particular speaker it says it's a 200 watt 15" subwoofer. At the link I posted they say it's a 500 watt speaker.

Ok, so if it's 200 Watts RMS, that would make it approx 400 watts peak. I assume this because the places advertising the Sub-1200 say it's 120 rms and 240 peak.

However...The vocopro site lists their sub-1200 model at two different rms and peak values as well. (100/200 and 120/240)

Why does this have to be so darn difficult!

- FutureMon

Try another Sam Ash. Sounds like a jerky salesperson. Go to the Cerritos store or the one on Beach Blvd in Huntington Beach.

I use a JBL Eon G2 powered sub and love it. Got a great deal with no shipping charges at the time from riksmusic.com. I run it off a separate zone-out on my mixer and even in the smaller rooms, it really makes a big difference in overall sound quality. For the price, size and weight, it's a winner IMO.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

Using a Sub with karaoke doesn't take too much. The sound illusion that a sub puts out maybe over powering for some singers. Your 15" sub-woofer, no matter what brand, is going to walk all over your 10" RSQ speakers. RSQ are designed for a specific usage -- singing. Not dancing, bumpin, thumpin, jumpin - just singing, using a singer friendly frequency range.

I use a 180 watt amp with 2 JBL Eons (non powered) and a 15" passive sub. I can't thump like the big boys who carry 1000's of pounds of equipment. My job is making (paying patrons) singers happy and that in itself is hard enough.

Why don't you rent a powered sub first??


Sammy

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The opinions of Sammy do not necessarily reflect the views of the Karaoke Scene Magazine - Advice is given with a sence of humor and should be taken accordingly - If you have problems setting the clock on your VCR - You've come to the right place

Lol.....Sammy cracks me up!!!!

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Now there's an idea.

My main concern is for instances when someone requests a song like "Baby Got Back" by Sir Mixalot. I know a guy who sings that song really well, and in fact, the crowd goes wild when he sings it.

I worry that with my current setup, the singer (and possibly the patrons too) are going to be very dissapointed that my equipment could not reproduce the sounds in the song properly.

If this Vocopro 15" sub has an independent volume control on the back, then I should be able to adjust it up and down depending on the acoustics of the venue...right?

- FutureMon