Karaoke Forums

Hi everybody!

I just got back from one of the bars that I work at and the boss told me a disturbing story that I wanted to share with you.


Some guy from BMI just came in to one of the bars that I play at and told my boss that he couldn't have DJ's anymore unless he started paying BMI some money and that if he did karaoke that his DJ would be fined $700 for every BMI song that he had and the person singing would be fined $1500!
Oh, but the BMI rep said that it is perfectly OK to play XM for free.

Can they (BMI & ASCAP) tell us what songs we can play and charge us for using certain songs live? I barely make enough to pay my rent. How can I pay for every song? My boss seems to think that this man is legit and he keeps calling and harrassing the bar owner.

Have any of you heard of this? What arethe laws? I was under the impression that if you used original karaoke CD's (as opposed to burned copies) you weren't liable for copyright infringement because the karaoke manufacturer paid these fees.

I'm Sure Brian can answer this in Depth for you, but for the short answer, they are the "record Mafia". Kinda like paying protection money for being in business. Both Bmi, and Ascap will be wanting a piece of the pie from the bar owner........ not to worry tho it is his fee, not yours to pay.

remember Lifes a bitzh then you die.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

yes it's BS..
demand a list of songs of what is playable and unplayable and a one to one meeting with the regional legal council of BMI/ASCAP and thier Division Executive to negotiate a deal.. Have your attorny present and record this meeting.

You see BMI Is having diffaculty collecting "public performance" artist royalties on karaoke upon demand right now because of a previous lawsuit so they go to successful clubs and get pushy. I will try to find the details of a previous lawsuit that was on the web that they lost.. and post a link.

As far as XM and SERIUS Satellite radio your royalties should have to be
paid too.

ALSO.. all clubs are required to pay a license fee to ASCAP, SESAC, and BMI.. plus any fees for preformances in a jukebox, or Live performances.

Send me the details and i'll have some nashville sources that I know look into it.

E-mail me and i'll send ya to a site that tells it all..
about BMI.. this guy is kinda wacked.. unfortunally the old bird... does tell it like it is.. and with real honesty. actually i think he was a mentor for a certain late night radio talk host..

hey folks If i'm on the right track or anywhere near it.. this is a start.. there is many more like to.. details to follow..

http://www.lodgingmagazine.com/pdf/law/2003/LLaw803.pdf

yes the bar does have to pay ASCAP, SESAC & BMI to play music by artists represented by these companies. It is the Bar's expense....

If you have the following happening ANYWHERE the public is allowed, you must pay.
- playing a boom box in the store
- playing a radio on the PA
- any music on hold system
- jukeboxes*
- karaoke
- cover bands**
- DJ's
- If you can hear music, you probably have to pay for it.
- TV's in bars and pubs showing games, MTV, CMT, GAC, VH-1, etc.....

* Jukeboxes are licensed through the Jukebox Licensing office, and are NOT covered under any individual ASCAP, SEASAC, or BMI fee
** Bands performing their own original music scores and songs are not needing to be covered under a license, as they are the copyright holders.

How much does it cost..... it depends on seating capacity, and frequency of entertainment

Thanks Capt.,
Ya beat me to it.. I just came from a 3 hour meeting and this very subject was deeply discussed.. for about half of it. Amazing .. we even pulled out all 3 societies hand books out.. and looked closely at them... great thing that a club owner was there, a local publisher, and 5 musicians, a studio owner and a Industry attny.. and you nailed it .. and you said it pretty much in "plain english" too.

Thanks...

thank you..... it's freakin amazing that i conveyed a thought like that in plain english....

And whatever they do, get identification and confirm with the home office. Too many scam artists out there.

Exactly Timberlea..
Like I said get a follow up meeting with a varified executive from a major regional division with identification and tape it.. with survalence taping.. both audio and video.. with witnesses.. preferrably attnys. All SESAC, BMI and ASCAP reps and thier Executives carry Company Photo Identification Badges. I know this from being in Nashville, and have seen them personally.

I never heard of these agencies fining the DJ/KJ or the singers. As previously stated, it is the Venue's responsibility to pay all Music/Performance fees to the appropriate agencies.

Also, as for your last statement about the CDGs themselves, all the Manufacturers paid for was the right to reproduce the tracks and words. This has nothing to do with how the CDGs will be used.

I know this is a beaten subject, but I was wondering, would one have to keep track of exactly which songs were sung? I don't think they represent all writers/artists, and certainly some of the music is in the public domain. If a song is not selected to be sung, why would a performance license fee be necessary? Generally only a fraction of our libraries get sung repeatedly. Just curious.

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Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

I've been throught the whole BMI Mafia thing with the bar I used to manage.

The way we solved it was this:

I wrote a letter to them basically telling them to get stuffed. We weren't going to pay any BMI licensing fees--PERIOD. I asked them to please send me a list of songs that were currnetly held by the BMI licensing agreement, and we would remove them from our playlist.

It worked like tossing holy water on a vampire. We never heard from them again.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

marty,
only radio, TV and webcasters have the honest wherewithall and time to sit there and track what was played in a show.. live bands & dj's could tell you what was in thier playlists.. but NO WAY could you have the time to track a karaoke show on the budget a bar was paying.. To be honest here.. ASCAP & BMI would be shooting themselves in the foot on collecting royalties .. if they could.. and the media manufacturers know it. SO I'M GONNA BREAK IT DOWN... less shows = less KJ's = less media sold= less royalties for songwriters & artists = less percentages for BMI & ASCAP.

'nuff said..

Thanks everybody for all of the great info!

Basically, the owner started breaking all of the cd's at the bar that had BMI songs on them and the rep left and never came back. Someone from BMI kept calling the bar until the owner told them that they were going out of business. The bar never went out of business but BMI must have figured you can't get blood from a stone.

One more question though. What if I am playing a private event, say in a big hall? Am I suposed to pay these fees?

Thanks again,

DJ Cee

the link should have answered that..
in summation.. the hotel. they have usually a blanket licence "Usually"
This should cover any place that entertaiment plays. it's a good question to pose to any place you play.. if they host live entertaiment including Karaoke & DJ's regularily.. "Usually" it's pretty safe. as long as you do your thing properly.

Good Luck.

Quite frankly playing a party of some sort in a hall a one time thing, I wouldn't give it another thought. You're stressing yourself out for no reason. BMI, ASCAP or whoever do not have "cops" on every street corner.